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Storytelling has been how we have conveyed information and wisdom, and we seem to have lost that in our busy, busy era where we're constantly listening to things or on the net or on the social media, or watching news or something that we listen, listen, listen to all that information, but we have a hard time processing it time processing.
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Hey, Uncommon Leaders, welcome back.
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This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast and I'm your host, John Gallagher.
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I've got a great episode planned for you.
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Today.
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We're exploring a timeless and powerful tool that often gets overlooked in business and in leadership, and that's the power of storytelling.
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And our guide today in storytelling is Steve Mann, a global entrepreneur.
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He's a philanthropist but also a mentor, who understands the profound impact of sharing your personal story and the impact that it can have for generations to come.
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His new book, Stories that Shape Us, is a practical guide to passing down wisdom, love and joy to the next generation, and I know that he believes in the power of stories.
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We've had some conversation before we even got started to connect families, to teach invaluable lessons for life and create a lasting legacy.
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So, Steve, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast.
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Great to have you on the show.
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How are you doing today?
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Doing great and it's great to be here.
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Well, I'm looking forward to our conversation.
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I'll start you off with the same first question that I ask all my first-time guests, and that's for you to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today, as a person or as a leader.
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You know, that's actually kind of a hard question, because where do you start?
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There's so many stories and that childhood and all those stories are what shaped me and what shaped all of us.
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But maybe I could just tell one.
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I grew up on a farm in Idaho potato farm and I remember as a young boy I just hated that and I was out hoeing weeds around something and I was getting mad at being out there out hoeing weeds around something and I was getting mad at being out there, so I was whacking that hole all over and chomping things down, and up comes my dad in his pickup and I thought, oh, I am in big trouble.
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And he gets out of his pickup and he sits down with me by a sandpipe there, big cement water device, and I'm thinking what's going on here?
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And he starts telling me this story of the frog who fell into the milk.
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We've all heard this story and rather than drown, he just kept going, just kept going, just kept going and turned the milk into butter and jumped out.
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And what could have been, I guess, an explosive kind of situation with my dad turned into a terrific learning experience, because he told me a story and I listened and obviously that story has stayed with me for the last 70 years.
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Those stories stay with you Love that and it leads right into the conversation about your book, right, and I love how those stories connect.
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I mean, I believe that I might learn just as much today going through this episode, and so my questions might sound a little bit almost selfish.
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So I hope the listeners really stay in touch with this as well, because I do think leaders are great storytellers and that doesn't have to be that they are making those things up, but it's saving that up in wisdom.
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Now your book Stories to Shape Us.
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What was it about that book?
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Who did you write it for?
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And what was it about that book that you wanted folks to take away?
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I have written this for parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, because I think we live in a world where kids and grandkids get so much of their information from the internet, from social media, and what they get is data.
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They get information, media and what they get is data.
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They get information, but they don't get the connections, they don't get the perspective that comes from a relative telling a story.
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So I wrote this in part to tell my own story to my own grandchildren, but also to try to teach others that you can do this, you can tell stories and here's how you do it.
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I think we we talk about food and we talk about the weather and we talk about sports, but we seldom talk about things that are important to us uh, values, principles, beliefs and we usually don't know quite how to get into those.
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And stories make a great way to do that if we know how to use it so you know I I really hope that people, as they go through the book, they learn how to tell their own stories, they learn how to pass on their wisdom and their love and their concern to the next generation, and that they have a fun time doing it.
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We're going to get into some really cool stuff, because you talk about the science of storytelling as well and the impact it can have in terms of the memory you talked about that a little bit, just with your frog in the milk story and turning it into butter.
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See, I still remember that as well, and 70 years ago, and what the impact can have.
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But before we get into that, what do you see, or what have you seen, are some of the barriers that prevent people from sharing their stories or becoming a good storyteller.
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I think too many people.
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If you ask them, tell me stories, no, I've never done anything important.
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And so I start saying things like well, tell me when you were in college, what did you do there?
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And what do they do?
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They start telling me stories.
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Tell me about when you were growing up.
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And they start telling me stories.
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And so I kind of then turn around and say, see, you just told me about five stories.
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You do have them, you just don't think about it.
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So I encourage people to just go to different parts of their life and maybe say what happened here and then come up with some stories about it.
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But you know, these are important to me.
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But I can't sit down with a grandson and say, look, I've got a lecture on wisdom today.
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Well, you've just lost it there.
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But if you tell that grandson a story, then they're asking the questions.
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Maybe I could just share a story for that.
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That helped me guide me to write this book.
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I was telling stories to my seven-year-old grandson about his uncles, my two youngest sons, who happened to be black, and I was telling them about how their uncles would often be not often, but periodically be followed home from school by police because of their skin color and he looked at me and said that's dumb, why would they do that?
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So that led to a discussion of prejudice and discrimination, and you know it's not easy to explain something like that to a seven-year-old.
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And the next morning we were at breakfast with his parents and he brought it up again and we ended up with quite a long discussion about prejudice and discrimination, and so it really taught me how a story can lead into a discussion of really important values and beliefs.
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I love that you can tie that back in again.
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It only took a story to generate the curiosity, and to have the curiosity of a seven-year-old, I'm sure makes it even more interesting to tell that story.
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So I think that's one of the things that I see as a barrier is folks.
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They get it.
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You know, as you said, that tell me about college or tell me about your high school days versus what do you do for a job, Well, that's different conversationally than tell me about something that's happened in your past.
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You know you emphasize the stories are more memorable than advice, and that might be part of it, right?
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Let me tell you about wisdom.
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What's the psychology behind that?
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Is there something that's there with regards to what you've learned, that folks learn better from stories or parables than they do from advice?
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You know, I think it's kind of innate.
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You know, you go to France and the caves and the cave paintings here and about the oldest kind of communication we know.
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And what were they doing?
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They were trying to depict stories of the hunt and the hunter.
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Why?
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Because their survival depended on that.
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But even back then they were using stories to try to convey wisdom and information to their children and hopefully sometimes grandchildren, and that has stayed with us in every culture.
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That I know of, storytelling has been how we have conveyed information and wisdom and we seem to have kind of lost that in our busy, busy era where we're constantly listening to things, or on the net or on the social media, or watching news or something on the net or on the social media, or watching news or something that we listen, listen, listen to all that information but we have a hard time processing it, we have a hard time putting it in perspective and um and in in listening to all that stuff, we've quit talking to each other.
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Think how many of us have somebody in our family who we don't talk to anymore because of differences on political issues.
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I have this little group I meet with on Mondays and it's people about my age, seventies and eighties and we just have somebody come and talk or have somebody play the violin or something.
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So one day I said, you know and, by the way, this is a group of engineers, nuclear physicists, geneticists.
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I said what if we just took a topic of today's political world and had a discussion?
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No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we might offend somebody.
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We can't do that, we just got to do things.
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And so here's this group of people who I would really like to know their opinions on things and how they develop those opinions, and they're not willing to do that.
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I'm hopeful when the book comes out I can get them all a copy and say, okay, let's go to this chapter on talking about controversial issues and I'll read that.
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Yeah, let's hear it Come on Because I know, here's what I hear before we even tell the story.
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It's one thing this is the old wives' tale.
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There's two things that you don't talk about at the dinner table, especially if there's alcohol involved, and that's religion and politics.
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So help me talk about those things without alcohol being involved and not getting anybody upset.
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That's here, Steve.
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Well, I think the first thing is is you need to set some ground rules, because we don't do this all the time.
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It's a now it strange experience, a different experience, and we usually go into things like that and our determination is to we're going to convert the other person, and so the first ground rule I say that we need to look at is the purpose isn't to convert, the purpose is to learn.
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Okay, and I think right off the bat, if two people or two groups agree that that's their purpose, all of a sudden it's easier, and we kind of monitor that as they go on.
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The next thing I say is the first thing we've got to do is ask questions and listen, and when we're listening, it isn't to come up with the argument, it's to understand.
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Well, those are just a few of the ground rules, but I think if we could just do those two things, we could end up in some productive discussions.
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Hey, uncommon Leaders, hope you're enjoying the episode so far.
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Now let's get back to the episode.
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Love that.
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Stay curious.
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I had a friend who advised me one time when reading a book.
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He says don't read a book to agree or disagree with the book.
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Read a book to learn.
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And then that second component you're talking about.
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You get asked questions, but they're not questions like well, why would you say something like that?
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It's in this form of a clarifying, non-leading question so tell me more about this, or what did you mean by this when you said it and then the tone.
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But yeah, I agree, steve, if we could just follow those two rules in storytelling, we would be able to talk about those things at the table, absolutely.
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You know, I think our whole society is built toward polarization.
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If we go on the Internet, the algorithms force us to one side and pretty soon all we hear is further and further out, and they don't bring us to the middle to try to understand.
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And so we have tended to pick that up in our personal lives and you can see what that's doing to our country, we see what that does to our families.
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So I think it's really critical that we learn how to talk.
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You know, I had a just terrific professor in graduate school and one of the things he had us do is we would take his class and we'd take one week and hear all the positive sides of a topic like environmentalism.
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Then we'd hear all the negatives and we'd debate it.
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Then we'd move to a new topic All the cons, all the pros and then debate.
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And at the end of the class I sat down with him and he said what do you like, what do you think of the class?
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I said well, I love the class.
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Yeah, it was invigorating, but I also kind of hated it.
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He said well, why is that?
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I said because I love being passionately devoted to a cause and when I understand both sides it's harder to do that, and he looked at me and he smiled.
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They said, steve, that's the role of the educated person to try to keep both sides from killing each other while you help them work towards solutions.
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And that just stayed with me my whole life.
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Another story.
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There you go, steve.
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You're still telling stories as to how things work.
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Steve, help me become a better storyteller.
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What are some of the key elements, then, of a story that make it effective?
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You talked about the ground rules before you get started, but what makes up a good story that is memorable and especially, again in the context of parenting grandparents that one that stays for generations?
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Well, I think the first thing is just to start.
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You know you don't have to start with a story that has a big moral behind it.
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You don't have to start with some complicated story.
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Kids, just like anything.
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In fact, that's kind of how I got into it.
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I was reading books.
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Children's books to grandkids ran out.
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They said well, tell us something about you, grandpa.
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I said, well, tell us something about you, grandpa.
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So I kind of okay.
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So I started telling stories of growing up and they loved it.
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I couldn't believe it.
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It didn't have to have a moral, didn't have to have anything to follow it.
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They just loved hearing the stories and I think part of that was they could make connections between me and my life and them and that helped them get perspective and a sense of belonging.
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So the first thing I'd say is just start.
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It could be silly, it could be hard, it could be a failure.
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You know it doesn't have to be anything.
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Just tell the story and enjoy it, and tell some stories like that and have fun and ask them to tell their stories, and then maybe somewhere along the line you'll see the chance to talk about that a little deeper or one of the kids may ask you a question well, why did that happen?
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And now you're into a conversation, and that's really what I would like to see happen is to see grandparents parents in meaningful conversations with their children.
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You know, as you say that, steve, again there's some things that come to my mind as we were sharing before we get started.
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My dad has passed away recently and while we were there we got to go through some bins of photos that were there and you know, every one of those photos has a story, but the one that that touched us the most actually was was actually a box he had from his father that we had never seen before and we opened it up and my, my grandfather had passed away when I was just a year old, over 50 years ago.
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We opened that up and it was a box full of stories.
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It was his wallet from that he was carrying the week he passed away, and a driver's license with no photo and the different membership cards that he had, a different, uh, and I'm just imagining kind of that.
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And you know, these, these things that we have right here that we carry around every day, have got photos inside of them that are stories just waiting to be told, because the photo itself is a reminder, but the story that goes along with it is what really starts to be powerful.
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You know, we do kind of the same thing.
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I'm looking at it over here.
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We've got a Knicks play and that just a screen oh yeah like this and pictures go through, and it's got thousands and thousands of pictures on it now.
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And, uh, when the grandkids are here, they get locked in front of that and then they're shutting it off and asking is well, what, what's happening here, what's going on?
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Uh and I shouldn't just say the grandkids it turns on if you walk by it with a motion sensor, and I walk by at night turning lights off, and all of a sudden it goes on and I get stuck.
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I'm there for the next hour watching these pictures and thinking of things that happened.
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And so and you say why?
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I think again, because it gives us connections.
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It's one thing to get a piece of data.
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It's a whole different thing to connect with that data.
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Say, I understand, you know, my grandfather had a similar thing.
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He went through that.
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Maybe I can too.
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You know those stories are so powerful and you touched on this again from generations to come.
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What's some advice that you have as well?
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Like these stories are so powerful, and you touched on this again from generations to come.
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What's some advice that you have as well?
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Like these stories are being told, like how do you capture those stories that you can continue to pass them down?
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You know, I have an interesting process I sometimes go through, and when I started to write the book I didn't have a list of stories, but when I would think about it at night and I go to sleep and I guess your brain processes things when you're asleep invariably I'd be up at 3 o'clock writing down or sending myself messages, emails to myself.
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Remember when this happened.
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Remember when this happened, I had a friend, a neighbor, who was telling me some stories about growing up in Las Vegas in the 50s.
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Las Vegas was a very segregated town and when he was about 16, his dad sent him over to work in his uncle's laundry.
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They did laundry for the hotels and this laundry was in the black section of town and he was the only white kid there and he had this boss who he really didn't like and he felt he was lazy and didn't do anything.
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And after several years there, his boss said could you give me a ride home?
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Okay, didn't like the idea, but he did it.
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And then it was well, could you give me a ride home?
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Okay, didn't like the idea, but he did it.
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And then it was well, could you pick me up?
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Well, he didn't like that either, but he did it.
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And then he said well, could you kind of honk here so I don't have to get up any earlier when you get here?
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He said could you, lazy guy?
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Finally he is talking to him and finds out that he got married in high school and he and his wife both work two jobs.
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His kids are now just about to start college but he works two full time jobs and he doesn't know how to read or write, but he has learned how to get people to do things.
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So he is promoted and promoted and all of a sudden his whole attitude changed and I said have you written this down anywhere?
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I said no.
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No, he says no, who cares?
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I said you know what?
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Sometime out in the future, your great grandson, who you don't know, might pick up this story and he's reading about his grandfather, great grandfather.
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He's going wow, I never thought of that and that would give him a whole new perspective.
00:22:05.817 --> 00:22:08.705
And he looks at me and goes you're right, it could.
00:22:08.705 --> 00:22:11.281
I'd go home and write that down this afternoon.
00:22:11.281 --> 00:22:14.132
I go home and write that down this afternoon.
00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:25.413
Anyway, I think we underestimate the power that our stories can have with future generations.
00:22:25.413 --> 00:22:30.156
So cool Writing it down, If we just think about that.
00:22:30.156 --> 00:22:31.901
I mean having prompts or whatever that is to help us out, to get us through, you don't?
00:22:31.921 --> 00:22:33.182
have to write down the whole story.
00:22:33.182 --> 00:22:34.224
Just write down.
00:22:34.224 --> 00:22:44.035
It was about this, no-transcript.
00:22:44.204 --> 00:22:46.011
Steve, your book is going to be out.
00:22:46.011 --> 00:22:48.549
Folks are going to read it.
00:22:48.549 --> 00:22:51.713
They're going to put it on a bookshelf, just like the one that's behind me.
00:22:51.713 --> 00:22:56.316
After they read it, a year later, they're going to see the binder of that book sitting on the shelf still.
00:22:56.316 --> 00:23:06.589
When they see that binder, a year later, after they've read your book, what do you want them to think and what do you want for them to have done after reading your book?
00:23:08.593 --> 00:23:11.015
You know, the book is kind of put together like a workbook.
00:23:12.195 --> 00:23:33.597
There's probably some 50 stories, 60 stories of my life, and they illustrate 14 different principles, traits or beliefs and as they go through those they learn how to connect stories with a trait or a belief.
00:23:33.597 --> 00:23:41.510
But after every story I ask them to write down what does this bring to mind, what are your thoughts, what are your stories?
00:23:41.510 --> 00:23:58.953
After every trait or belief, I have a list of things that they could do, if they wanted to, to study further and to write that down, and so I hope, as they go through this, they end up with a resource book to tell stories for a long, long time.
00:23:58.953 --> 00:24:10.484
In fact, I hope they end up with their basic resources to write their own book, if they want to, that they could leave with their great-grandchildren to write their own book if they want to, that they could leave with their great-grandchildren.
00:24:10.484 --> 00:24:17.896
So I hope when they see that up on your bookshelf there, they'll see that spine and think you know what I was going to do, that I need to get back to it.
00:24:17.896 --> 00:24:19.078
I need to tell some stories.
00:24:22.391 --> 00:24:24.056
I need to jot down my history, steve.
00:24:24.056 --> 00:24:42.567
I think that's great and I think it's something again, it's as simple as writing it down and it's as complex as well.
00:24:42.567 --> 00:24:48.744
It's easier to have it in a picture in the next play and I know what frame you're talking about, because my mom has the same one and we'll upload photos to her because she lives so far away that we can be read into the future is so powerful as well.
00:24:48.744 --> 00:24:53.737
Picture makes you kind of make it up, but having that story written down can be really cool.
00:24:53.737 --> 00:24:59.676
Steve, I want folks to stay in touch with you and learn more about your books.
00:24:59.676 --> 00:25:02.775
Where can they go to find that information?
00:25:04.326 --> 00:25:15.695
We have a new website and it's steve-manncom, and on that website we've put a picture of the book.
00:25:15.695 --> 00:25:26.795
We put how you can find out about it, where it is, further developments that have happened, how to reach me, and so you will be able to find all of that on the website.
00:25:26.795 --> 00:25:35.773
You will also be able to find it on Instagram or any of the basic social media places, because we have information on those also.
00:25:36.536 --> 00:25:39.133
Great, steve, I've enjoyed our conversation today.
00:25:39.133 --> 00:25:47.025
I'm going to give you the last word here with one final question, but I want to let you know you've inspired me and now I got to go and start writing those down.
00:25:47.025 --> 00:25:55.617
So when I get a copy or book in my hands, uh, it's going to be something that's important for me to be able to pass those stories down generation to generation.
00:25:55.617 --> 00:25:56.602
How important that it is.
00:25:56.602 --> 00:26:01.473
Thank you for adding value to the listeners of the uncommon leader podcast, your.
00:26:01.473 --> 00:26:05.088
Your last question from me is um, I'm going to give you a billboard.
00:26:05.088 --> 00:26:06.092
You can put it wherever you want to.
00:26:06.092 --> 00:26:12.392
That's not the question in terms of where you're going to put it, but I'm going to let you put whatever message you want to on that billboard.
00:26:12.392 --> 00:26:16.465
What's the message that you put on that billboard and why do you put that message on there?
00:26:18.329 --> 00:26:28.836
You know, I often do talks with young men, young women, leadership camps, things like that, and there's two things I really try to stress.
00:26:28.836 --> 00:26:39.675
One is to dream dreams and at first they don't know what you're talking about and so they usually tell me the things they think I want them to say.
00:26:39.675 --> 00:26:48.612
I push it and push it and say no, what are you really imagining up there, and keep a hold of that.
00:26:48.612 --> 00:26:50.737
Don't let anybody drive that out of you.
