WEBVTT
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.366
So I have this growth mindset.
00:00:01.366 --> 00:00:20.629
So, no matter what you do because I've coached a lot of high performers in business and on the ice no matter what you do, you're gonna get to a point where the skill level is pretty much the same, whether you're writing, whether you're playing, whether you're leading, you know, and so it all comes down to mindset.
00:00:32.219 --> 00:00:32.881
Hey Oncoma Leaders, welcome back.
00:00:32.881 --> 00:00:33.603
This is the Uncommon Leader podcast.
00:00:33.603 --> 00:00:34.185
I'm your host, john Gallagher.
00:00:34.185 --> 00:00:36.472
I can't wait for you to meet our guest today, dave Jones.
00:00:36.472 --> 00:00:42.283
Let me give you a little bit of his bio so you can understand where we're going with this conversation, because I think it's going to be fabulous.
00:00:42.283 --> 00:00:51.969
But he's the founder of Emma's Good, a global Christian marketing powerhouse, and a former professional hockey player, so we'll talk about how those things go together.
00:00:51.969 --> 00:01:09.367
He's also a doctor of sport and performance psychology and the host of the R7 podcast those of you on video can see some of those things behind him and he's the author of Vision Wins ultimately a book that ties in how we can all tap into the internal compass to achieve true fulfillment in life.
00:01:09.367 --> 00:01:11.653
So I'm looking forward to our conversation today.
00:01:11.653 --> 00:01:13.888
Dave Jones, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast.
00:01:13.888 --> 00:01:14.349
How are you doing?
00:01:14.780 --> 00:01:15.481
I'm doing awesome.
00:01:15.481 --> 00:01:16.885
Thank you for having me on as a guest.
00:01:16.885 --> 00:01:19.331
I've been a fan, so I'm excited to be here.
00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:20.682
Oh cool, I like it.
00:01:20.682 --> 00:01:23.826
I like it when we have being a fan and going forward, and I can't wait.
00:01:23.826 --> 00:01:31.370
I know some of the things we talked about before we even hit the record button, some of the connections that the world just ends up being smaller and smaller.
00:01:31.370 --> 00:01:34.168
But I'm going to start you off with the first question.
00:01:34.168 --> 00:01:42.650
I always start off my first time guests, and that's to ask you to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today, as a person or as a leader.
00:01:43.572 --> 00:01:47.263
All right impacts who you are today as a person or as a leader?
00:01:47.263 --> 00:01:47.463
All right.
00:01:47.463 --> 00:01:47.704
So my story.
00:01:47.704 --> 00:01:48.126
I love this question.
00:01:48.126 --> 00:01:49.930
I've heard other guests on your podcast answer this question.
00:01:49.930 --> 00:01:53.245
I don't know if mine's as good as some of the other ones, but this is my.
00:01:53.245 --> 00:01:53.947
This is one.
00:01:53.947 --> 00:01:55.191
This is my story, I guess.
00:01:55.191 --> 00:01:56.700
So I was.
00:01:56.700 --> 00:02:03.370
I was 15 years old and me and a teammate I was on the high school hockey team.
00:02:03.632 --> 00:02:14.348
Me and a teammate were smoking pot and I had never smoked marijuana before and I don't smoke it today, but I got introduced to it at 15.
00:02:14.348 --> 00:02:21.573
And my high school hockey coach called me into the office.
00:02:21.573 --> 00:02:24.569
Now, before I go further in the story, let me just give you some context.
00:02:24.569 --> 00:02:32.025
This high school hockey coach, his name is Jamie Plunkett.
00:02:32.025 --> 00:02:34.171
He's the winningest high school hockey coach of all time.
00:02:34.171 --> 00:02:34.453
Oh my gosh.
00:02:34.453 --> 00:02:35.496
He's in Meadville, Pennsylvania.
00:02:35.496 --> 00:02:40.725
He just retired last year after 30 some years and 3000 wins something crazy.
00:02:40.725 --> 00:03:05.307
He was featured on NHL and NHL network and so I'm 15 years old and he calls me into the office and he says hey, um, you have to go talk to this person who I was just with, like 15 minutes ago when we were smoking pot together, right, and he says I want you're going to be a leader and there's always going to be people that are looking at you, that you don't know that
00:03:05.348 --> 00:03:13.388
are looking at you, and so, as a leader in this community, in this team, you have to do some things that, uh, they're uncomfortable, but you'll be a better person for it.
00:03:13.388 --> 00:03:19.784
And so I need you to go tell this person, who I was just with, that he needs to stop smoking pot.
00:03:19.784 --> 00:03:32.504
And I, I like, oh my gosh, like I didn't realize at the time how amazing that was, until after I graduated high school.
00:03:32.504 --> 00:03:37.883
But I knew now, I know, now Jamie knew that I was doing that too and made me be.
00:03:37.883 --> 00:03:41.980
So I had to go, you know, and tell this this person hey man, we gotta stop doing this.
00:03:42.040 --> 00:03:44.805
Jamie just called my office and like I gotta tell you to stop.
00:03:44.805 --> 00:03:46.347
Hey, man, we got to stop doing this.
00:03:46.347 --> 00:03:49.931
Jamie just called me office and like I got to tell you to stop, but inherently I had to stop too, right.
00:03:49.931 --> 00:03:55.146
And so, uh, and so I did I, I stopped, I never smoked it again, and it was because of that leadership.
00:03:55.146 --> 00:04:00.182
And so the story that sticks with me today because of that is, there's a couple of things.
00:04:00.203 --> 00:04:02.064
One, as a leader, you know, um, there's a couple of things.
00:04:02.064 --> 00:04:08.931
One as a leader, you know there's ways to communicate inspiration to people.
00:04:08.931 --> 00:04:17.641
Because he could have just said Dave, I know what you're doing, stop, you know, but he positioned it differently, you know.
00:04:17.641 --> 00:04:22.389
He put me in a position of leadership and accountability, and he followed up with me soon after to say, hey, did you talk to this person?
00:04:22.389 --> 00:04:23.524
I said, yeah, I talked to him.
00:04:23.524 --> 00:04:24.447
It won't happen again.
00:04:24.447 --> 00:04:31.124
Sorry, jamie, you know, um, and so that's that's story number one.
00:04:31.144 --> 00:04:32.447
Story number two is that you know, it's just what I said.
00:04:32.447 --> 00:04:42.290
You know, like there's always somebody watching, there's a great book out there who you are and no one's looking, and so, um, you know, when you're talking about integrity and accountability, it's not pleasing others.
00:04:42.290 --> 00:04:46.862
It's not pleasing others.
00:04:46.862 --> 00:04:48.267
It's about pleasing God and who you are as a person, to glorify him.
00:04:48.267 --> 00:04:52.302
And you know we all want to hear the words well done, good and faithful servant at some point in our life.
00:04:52.302 --> 00:04:57.011
And so, you know, this leads into what I call flap.
00:04:57.812 --> 00:05:08.985
You know there's, there's certain things that hold you back to being your, you know, living out your God-given potential, and so I live off of this acronym and I coach off this acronym.
00:05:08.985 --> 00:05:13.622
So FLAP stands for your fear, your lust, your anger and your pride.
00:05:13.622 --> 00:05:18.833
Most of us are dealing with two of those at any given moment.
00:05:18.833 --> 00:05:25.870
So in fact, I just wrote another book after Vision, vision wins.
00:05:25.870 --> 00:05:28.644
This book's called on thin ice, I'm not sure when that's going to release.
00:05:28.644 --> 00:05:29.807
That's a faith story, it's.
00:05:29.807 --> 00:05:32.944
It's coming off of my doctoral dissertation.
00:05:32.944 --> 00:05:42.930
But, um, my next book after that is going to be more of an ad agency leadership book and it's going to be something the title around, you know you know.
00:05:42.930 --> 00:05:50.516
Uh, how is your flap or we need to you know removing your around, you know you know how is your flap or we need to you know, removing your flap for, you know, better leadership, quality and integrity reasons, something like that.
00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:52.745
But yeah, so your flap.
00:05:52.745 --> 00:05:59.946
Fear, lust, anger, pride, and so when we think about fear is pretty easy, anger is pretty easy.
00:05:59.946 --> 00:06:07.221
Pride Lust is interesting because lust could be, you know know, sexual, but it also can be lusting over stuff.
00:06:07.221 --> 00:06:18.127
Sure, houses more commas in your bank account, you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, porn or whatever it's the idols.
00:06:19.048 --> 00:06:20.911
What is it that grabs your attention?
00:06:20.911 --> 00:06:26.750
What is it that you move toward, uh, rather than moving toward, god?
00:06:26.750 --> 00:06:28.600
Oh my, I mean absolutely.
00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:30.526
I love that.
00:06:30.526 --> 00:06:32.149
I appreciate you sharing that as well.
00:06:32.149 --> 00:06:34.802
I mean your faith being such an important part of your journey.
00:06:34.802 --> 00:06:36.086
I'm going to come back to that.
00:06:36.086 --> 00:06:45.374
Just as a note, a book that I read recently in 2024, fighting Shadows, talks about four of those flaps.
00:06:45.374 --> 00:06:56.035
They talk about seven of these things that keep men from basically living out the life that God has called them to live, and how we overcome those shadows that exist.
00:06:56.035 --> 00:06:57.545
Phenomenal book, jefferson Bethke.
00:06:57.545 --> 00:07:07.425
I would recommend it to you and to the listeners of your podcast as well, especially, uh, obviously, those who men, who are, uh, on a faith journey.
00:07:07.425 --> 00:07:10.132
Tell me about your faith journey, then, mark.
00:07:10.132 --> 00:07:18.843
I mean or excuse me, dave that tell me about your faith journey that ultimately, um, frames who you are today.
00:07:18.843 --> 00:07:19.264
Was that?
00:07:19.264 --> 00:07:21.089
Have you always been a believer?
00:07:21.089 --> 00:07:23.122
You know, found God when you were little.
00:07:23.122 --> 00:07:24.084
What is, what is that story?
00:07:24.084 --> 00:07:24.745
Always?
00:07:24.764 --> 00:07:26.047
been a believer, you know found God when you were little.
00:07:26.047 --> 00:07:26.447
What is that story?
00:07:26.447 --> 00:07:26.668
Yeah, so no.
00:07:26.668 --> 00:07:44.089
I grew up in northwest Pennsylvania in a very small town, town that was broke and I think it's not doing well today, and I always wanted something more.
00:07:44.089 --> 00:08:00.271
You know, I don't know how that works in terms of my DNA, but you know I was always chasing something and I realized early on that scoring goals was positive, that I got accolades for that, and so I just did more of that to the point where, you know, I didn't you know blame pro hockey.
00:08:01.819 --> 00:08:11.103
But it was after I got drunk one night after winning the state championship that my brother, who was going to Moody Bible Institute, came and said hey, do you want to receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
00:08:11.103 --> 00:08:12.949
And I said I want anything other than this.
00:08:12.949 --> 00:08:16.684
This is there, and so that was at 16.
00:08:16.684 --> 00:08:26.029
And then, after I played hockey in Europe, I came back and I just really prayed a prayer of God what do you want to do with my life?
00:08:26.029 --> 00:08:32.892
Because this isn't working, and I would say that I've been pretty obedient to that since.
00:08:32.892 --> 00:08:33.942
You know, m is Good.
00:08:34.003 --> 00:08:35.828
Now is in its 24th year.
00:08:35.828 --> 00:08:38.668
We represent clients from all over the world.
00:08:38.668 --> 00:08:43.071
You know we're a very strategic Christian ad agency.
00:08:43.071 --> 00:08:52.253
God continues to prop that up and I just really just pray for wisdom honestly, and I don't do good at that a whole lot.
00:08:52.253 --> 00:09:04.210
You know, I mess up for sure, um, but I'm always seeking kind of the Lord's direction, um, and I I think I've done a pretty good job of following that, um, that direction.
00:09:04.210 --> 00:09:19.732
And so, um, yeah, I, I I would say that I do come early, stay late, I I've realized as a hockey player that I was never the most talented guy, so I had to make up with it with just activity.
00:09:19.732 --> 00:09:39.192
And I think I've pushed that into the agency of just come early, stay late and care, care about what you're doing, not because of the project but because we want to glorify the Lord and become the best version of ourselves, and so that's really my fuel.
00:09:39.192 --> 00:09:46.714
You know, and I've stumbled a long way, I've probably made more mistakes than I've had, you know, been successful.
00:09:47.215 --> 00:09:55.787
So you know you talk about that and, dave, one of the things that I think about, we are most powerfully positioned to help the person that we used to be.
00:09:55.787 --> 00:10:07.106
And so your story that's a lot of where I'd lead in with that first story because it connects right In terms of your journey all the way through, and I'm sure you can still see yourself.
00:10:07.106 --> 00:10:17.966
I was going to ask you, compelled to ask you, if your leadership story start was before or after your brother asked you if you wanted to have Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior, and your marijuana story.
00:10:17.966 --> 00:10:19.030
But then that's a whole different.
00:10:19.030 --> 00:10:20.929
Give me, we can talk about that one.
00:10:20.929 --> 00:10:21.672
And then the other side.
00:10:21.672 --> 00:10:22.466
I mean we're connected.
00:10:22.466 --> 00:10:32.048
Not only we're connected Smithbound Lake and the Virginia area, raleigh, north Carolina, where you're from but we also share a little bit about.
00:10:32.067 --> 00:10:33.129
You mentioned Western PA.
00:10:33.129 --> 00:10:34.389
You said Northwest PA.
00:10:34.389 --> 00:10:37.552
I've read a little bit eerie in terms of where you're from or something.
00:10:37.552 --> 00:10:42.317
I grew up in Northern Panhandle, west Virginia, so Steel Town, 30 miles directly west of Pittsburgh.
00:10:42.317 --> 00:10:44.337
So I understand the.
00:10:44.337 --> 00:10:48.961
You know the upbringing and that environment, if you will.
00:10:48.961 --> 00:10:55.317
I mean ours was more high school football was the thing you had to do when I was growing up as a kid versus hockey.
00:10:55.317 --> 00:10:59.576
They can get up there near Erie and get a lot colder and get some hockey in.
00:10:59.576 --> 00:11:08.825
That's definitely a little more for us, but I can understand, and sports has played a very important role, obviously, in your life and your development.
00:11:08.825 --> 00:11:11.033
Now you run this organization.
00:11:11.033 --> 00:11:12.851
Tell me a little bit more about Emma's Good.
00:11:12.851 --> 00:11:16.630
You founded that company in 2001.
00:11:16.630 --> 00:11:20.217
You obviously talk about your faith inside of that business as well.
00:11:20.217 --> 00:11:27.979
But what is Emma's Good doing today that is adding value to the community that you serve?
00:11:29.404 --> 00:11:30.626
Oh man, what a great question.
00:11:30.626 --> 00:11:31.528
So, emma's good.
00:11:31.528 --> 00:11:33.572
His vertical has always been Jesus.
00:11:33.572 --> 00:11:37.399
We represent clients from all over the world.
00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:40.073
We have about 41 clients we manage on a weekly basis.
00:11:40.073 --> 00:11:46.365
Our core competency is messaging and KPI management, so key performance indicators.
00:11:46.365 --> 00:11:51.898
We spend about $1.6 million a month in ad spend through those 41 clients.
00:11:51.898 --> 00:11:54.730
So it's about conversion.
00:11:54.730 --> 00:12:15.238
So we do have a heavy presence in Israel right now and we do have a heavy presence with pregnancy resource centers, and so when it comes to donors, when it comes to bringing other clients, donors, first-time guests into your community, you know there's usually a drip campaign.
00:12:16.687 --> 00:12:17.549
You know that happens.
00:12:17.549 --> 00:12:23.109
So when you're prospecting versus retargeting, you know there are, there are people out there like John.
00:12:23.109 --> 00:12:29.432
You and I have a kindred spirit, for sure, you know, but before this we really didn't know each other.
00:12:29.432 --> 00:12:34.075
So if we saw each other, you know, walking along the street, we probably wouldn't say anything because we didn't know each other.
00:12:34.075 --> 00:12:37.346
You know that's prospecting.
00:12:37.346 --> 00:12:38.201
So if we saw each other, you know, walking along the street, we probably wouldn't say anything because we didn't know each other.
00:12:38.201 --> 00:12:38.437
You know that's prospecting.
00:12:38.350 --> 00:12:52.429
So when it comes to organization Christian organizations that are trying to introduce new people it's called prospecting, and so you know there's, there's millions of evangelicals out there that want to be involved in ministry, and so we build those campaigns and then we do a retargeting campaign.
00:12:52.429 --> 00:12:57.634
So you know, now we kind of invite you into the community of whatever organization we're representing.
00:12:57.634 --> 00:13:10.765
So there's lots of ads, lots of messaging, lots of email, lots of retargeting ads, and so it's conversion.
00:13:10.765 --> 00:13:19.789
So you're spending money, you want that money to be accountable, and so we basically do a pretty good job of mining data to understand, um, if that marketing campaign is working or not.
00:13:20.851 --> 00:13:23.498
And so I'm super thankful for the opportunity to serve.
00:13:23.498 --> 00:13:27.860
It was good, you know, being the leader there, but, uh, it's, it weighs on me.
00:13:27.860 --> 00:13:46.501
It's very heavy because there's a lot of responsibility there, um, terms of, you know, representing Israel and we know, as a seasoned Christian, you know that we need to support Israel, and so there's several organizations that come to us and say, can we reach other evangelicals that share the same heart and help us?
00:13:46.501 --> 00:13:54.239
You know, support Israel, and we know that Israel is God's chosen land and you know the Jews are God's chosen people.
00:13:56.166 --> 00:13:57.389
Wow, that's fascinating.
00:13:57.389 --> 00:13:59.615
I'd love to be able to dig more into that.
00:13:59.615 --> 00:14:02.330
Just to understand, I love the chat about key performance indicators.
00:14:02.330 --> 00:14:06.250
As a consultant and as an executive coach, they're definitely important.
00:14:06.250 --> 00:14:15.825
And where that kindred spirit comes into play as well is that I've been moving more into working with Christian business leaders as well, and I kind of have modified that a little bit.
00:14:15.825 --> 00:14:18.192
They'd be kingdom performance indicators and what are those.
00:14:18.292 --> 00:14:19.535
Oh, I like that yeah.
00:14:19.684 --> 00:14:40.227
Influence on God, that they just go a little bit further and it's the impact we're having on the world, being very intentional in measuring that, because if you want to have kingdom impact, you've got to measure kingdom impact, and you do that in the form of those indicators, just like you would revenue and margin and hits and all those different things that come along so pretty powerful.
00:14:40.227 --> 00:14:54.760
Well, fast forward 20 years to really how I ended up being introduced to you is you wrote a book called Vision Wins, and can you elaborate on what Vision Wins is about, who you wrote that for and why did you write it?
00:14:54.760 --> 00:14:56.105
Why did you write Vision Wins?
00:14:57.427 --> 00:15:01.034
Yeah, you know, vision Wins is all about R7.
00:15:01.034 --> 00:15:06.934
It is told through a story of Kelly and Elliot, who are.
00:15:06.934 --> 00:15:15.275
Since I have a hockey background, I put it in the mecca of hockey which is Edina, minnesota, and I built out these characters.
00:15:15.275 --> 00:15:17.865
I am a big fan of John Gordon.
00:15:17.865 --> 00:15:19.669
I love all his books.
00:15:19.669 --> 00:15:30.966
I love how he tells a story and I happened to have the opportunity to carry his bags once when he was speaking at a conference and I asked him how do you write a book?
00:15:30.966 --> 00:15:36.458
And he kind of laid out how to write a book and it took me five years to kind of figure out what he had told me there.
00:15:36.458 --> 00:15:45.659
But I wanted to tell a story that people can relate to and how, what I think the world turns.
00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:54.379
So I build out these characters, kelly and Elliot, and the supporting people around them, their parents and the hockey community.
00:15:54.379 --> 00:16:00.998
And you know, when it comes to R7, that's our process here, that we take people through.
00:16:01.765 --> 00:16:03.429
But you know you have a destiny.
00:16:03.429 --> 00:16:08.085
You know, as a Christian, you know our destiny is to glorify the Lord with our talents and abilities.
00:16:08.085 --> 00:16:09.969
And then you know that vision.
00:16:09.969 --> 00:16:15.605
You know writing a vision and you know on a tablet making a plane.
00:16:15.605 --> 00:16:17.934
Habakkuk 2.2 tells us that you know writing a vision and you know, on a tablet, making a plane.
00:16:17.934 --> 00:16:19.841
Back at two, two tells it tells us that you know to write it on a tablet, make a plane.
00:16:19.841 --> 00:16:21.567
So run running by I can see and carry with them.
00:16:21.567 --> 00:16:29.515
And so when we have a vision for our life, you know we want to cast vision, we want to, we want to tell the world how we see the world through our lens.
00:16:29.515 --> 00:16:34.775
But really it's, it's a, basically a, you know, mirroring what God wants us to do.
00:16:34.775 --> 00:16:39.945
And then you know, how do we, how do we, what's the strategy for that, for that vision to happen?
00:16:39.945 --> 00:16:40.969
So that's step three.
00:16:40.969 --> 00:16:47.572
And then you know, you build the brand, communicate, pray about steps one through five and then step seven, take action.
00:16:47.633 --> 00:16:51.711
So, I didn't want to write a book that just had the steps, you know.
00:16:51.711 --> 00:16:58.716
I wanted to tell the story of how somebody's living through these steps, and that's what I did with kelly and elliot.
00:16:58.716 --> 00:17:06.798
And so they go through that process and through a mentor named jj, who happens to be the very successful.
00:17:06.798 --> 00:17:11.732
In fact, john, you probably emulate jj very much.
00:17:11.732 --> 00:17:29.614
Um, jj was JJ is an older gentleman who has so much wisdom about him, but he takes this job as a Zamboni driver and he's just kind of like in the rink and everybody goes to JJ because they trust JJ.
00:17:30.164 --> 00:17:54.239
He's just very open and you're able to talk to him very well and he listens and he helps people with their life and their you know their God-given purpose and so so JJ is a big character in the book and it just tells the story and there's some tragedy that happens because in life we have tragedies, you know, we have crisis, we have drama.
00:17:54.239 --> 00:17:58.755
So there's some crisis and drama in it and it's it's.
00:17:58.755 --> 00:18:05.107
I actually just I love the book now because I wrote it because of the story and so yeah, that's that's vision wins.
00:18:05.147 --> 00:18:15.853
So so the title of the book I really love too, because no matter where you're at or what you're doing, vision always wins.
00:18:15.853 --> 00:18:30.699
And I don't want to make this a political thing, but when you look at politicians and how they run for the presidency of the United States of America, it's really interesting to see.
00:18:30.699 --> 00:18:40.919
You know, you can go back, and I have example after example of the presidential candidate who has a compelling vision wins.
00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:43.409
Hey Uncommon Leaders, Hope you're enjoying the episode.
00:18:43.409 --> 00:18:47.474
So far, I believe in doing business with people you like and trust, and not just a company name.
00:18:47.474 --> 00:18:51.993
That's why a strong personal brand is essential, whether you're an entrepreneur or a leader within a company.
00:18:51.993 --> 00:18:59.332
Brand Builders Group, the folks who have been helping me refine my own personal brand are offering a free consultation call with one of their expert brand strategists.
00:18:59.332 --> 00:19:05.395
They'll help you identify your uniqueness, craft a compelling story and develop a step-by-step plan to elevate your impact.
00:19:05.395 --> 00:19:16.192
So head on over to coachjohngallaghercom slash BBG, as in Brand Builders Group, to schedule your free call and take the first step toward building a personal brand that gets you noticed for all the right reasons.
00:19:16.192 --> 00:19:19.494
That's coachjohngallaghercom slash BBG.
00:19:19.494 --> 00:19:21.369
Now let's get back to the episode.
00:19:21.369 --> 00:19:24.031
Love that and I think you mentioned.
00:19:24.031 --> 00:19:29.811
You said your book was described as a faith-based personal development book wrapped up in a hockey story.
00:19:29.811 --> 00:19:33.355
That's it, and I love that as the seven steps that you go through.
00:19:38.065 --> 00:19:38.346
Now you story.
00:19:38.365 --> 00:19:39.028
That's it, Uh, and I love that.
00:19:39.028 --> 00:19:39.289
That's the.
00:19:39.289 --> 00:19:40.455
That's the seven steps that you go through Now.
00:19:40.455 --> 00:19:41.380
I appreciate you referring me to JJ.
00:19:41.380 --> 00:19:43.467
You had me until you said older or after that talk what's your favorite John Gordon book?
00:19:43.487 --> 00:19:44.167
You got a favorite.
00:19:44.167 --> 00:19:44.669
Is it energy bus?
00:19:44.669 --> 00:19:45.150
I love the energy bus.
00:19:45.150 --> 00:19:46.412
Carpenter is good.
00:19:46.412 --> 00:19:48.576
Um, yeah, yeah.
00:19:48.576 --> 00:19:49.699
Those are my two favorites.
00:19:49.805 --> 00:20:12.412
I was actually, I'll say, introduced to him, not formally but in terms of his writing, with the coffee bean and the story he and Damon West did together, and I heard Damon West on a podcast and he talked about it, and I love how John Gordon tells stories with his books, though, and I love the use of fables, and you're actually the third hockey person I've had on the podcast that's written a book in the story of a fable hockey story.
00:20:12.412 --> 00:20:14.915
So, really, and that it's not that unique.
00:20:14.915 --> 00:20:19.050
Although Gordon was a, he was a lacrosse player, right he was more of a lacrosse than he was hockey.
00:20:19.070 --> 00:20:21.336
So excellent.
00:20:21.505 --> 00:20:30.125
You mentioned your background as a professional hockey player as well and a sports psychology coach, so that gives you quite a perspective as well.
00:20:30.125 --> 00:20:34.288
You bring your faith in and you talk about your business, what's happening, but you know how.
00:20:34.288 --> 00:20:40.346
How has a mental performance in sports translated to your business, and it's good.
00:20:40.346 --> 00:20:40.727
What are?
00:20:40.727 --> 00:20:42.914
How are those things overlapping even in the story?
00:20:43.917 --> 00:20:59.780
Yeah, it's such an awesome question and originally I didn't know, john, like I just wanted to chase psychology, because I believe that human behavior is like everything.
00:20:59.780 --> 00:21:06.897
You know, how we react to certain messaging, how we act to certain words, how we react to drama around us.
00:21:06.897 --> 00:21:12.719
It really determines who we are and we get in these ruts.
00:21:12.719 --> 00:21:21.846
And because of our behavior, you know, we find out things that work that are ineffective and we find out things that work that are effective.
