Oct. 28, 2025

Episode 190: Unconditional Power - Achieve Results, Not Just Work with Steven Gaffney

In this brand-new episode of the Uncommon Leader Podcast, John Gallagher Jr. sits down with Steven Gaffney to explore the mindset shift that separates high-performing teams from high-achieving ones.

John shares how leaders must evolve—not just change—to meet the demands of today’s chaotic world. From creating safe spaces for feedback to mastering mood discipline and honest communication, this episode is packed with practical strategies and personal stories that will challenge and inspire leaders of leaders.

Key takeaways include:

Why achievement matters more than effort
The power of evolving beyond complacency
How to get the unsaid, said
Creating feedback-rich environments
Leading with Unconditional Power

Whether you’re coaching teams, leading organizations, or growing champions, this episode will help you shift from performance to impact.

🎧 Listen now and share with a leader who needs this message.
📘 Learn more at coachjohngallagher.com
📲 Connect with John on LinkedIn: @CoachJohnGallagher

📘 Learn more about Steven Gaffney:
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevengaffneycompany/
🌐 Website: https://stevengaffney.com/
📺 YouTube: @stevengaffneycompany

#UncommonLeader #LeadershipDevelopment #ExecutiveWisdom #UnconditionalPower #HighAchievingTeams #FaithDrivenLeadership #Teamwork #MindsetMatters #GrowingChampions

Thanks for listening in to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Please take just a minute to share this podcast with that someone you know that you thought of when you heard this episode. One of the most valuable things you can do is to rate the podcast and leave a review. You can do that on Apple podcasts, or rate the podcast on Spotify or any other platform you listen.

Did you know that many of the things that I discuss on the Uncommon Leader Podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations ? If you would be interested in having me discuss 1:1 or group coaching with you, or know someone who is looking to move from Underperforming to Uncommon in their business or life, I would love to chat with you. Click this link to set up a FREE CALL to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team)

Until next time, Go and Grow Champions!!

Connect with me

00:00 - Evolve, Don’t Change

00:21 - Welcome And Episode Setup

01:15 - Performing Vs Achieving Results

03:07 - Language, Accountability, And Evolution

04:13 - Steve’s Childhood And Root Cause

07:32 - Why Unconditional Power Now

09:17 - The Power Continuum Explained

12:17 - From Powerless To Unconditionally Powerful

14:04 - Client Stories And Organizational Shifts

15:24 - Midroll: Personal Brand CTA

15:59 - Strategy: Make The Unaware Aware

18:10 - Blunt But Caring Feedback

21:06 - Asking For Feedback And Using It

24:07 - Energy Modes: Doomers To Boosters

26:20 - The Nine Strategies And Tools

27:29 - Where To Find Steve And Resources

28:12 - Free Framework Offer For Listeners

29:06 - Final Billboard Message And Closing

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.080
Don't use the word change, use the word evolved.

00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:06.400
If you tell you to change something, somebody goes, well, what's wrong with the way we've done it before?

00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:09.119
But if you say evolved, who can disagree with that?

00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:11.119
There is no such thing as status quo.

00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:23.120
Hey Uncommon Leaders, welcome back.

00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:25.120
This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast.

00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:28.960
I'm your host, John Gallagher, and have I got a fabulous guest for you today.

00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:37.119
Have you ever had a challenge working with your teams and understanding if they're achieving what you need them to do and some of the challenges they're running into?

00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:43.439
Not accepting, not looking for the opportunities that they really have and growing in the areas that they need to.

00:00:43.600 --> 00:01:00.240
Our guest today, Steve Gaffney, has written the book on unconditional power, and he's going to talk about that today and ultimately have a chance to tell us some of the things that he's worked on over the years to help teams be more performing versus achieving in that.

00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:01.759
And we'll talk about that definition.

00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:04.079
But Steve, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast.

00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:04.799
How are you doing today?

00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:05.200
Good.

00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:06.159
Thanks for having me on.

00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:06.799
Absolutely.

00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:14.959
I I know we had a chance to really chat as we get started here with some of the things that the listeners are going to be ready for, and I know they're going to find a good deal of value in it today.

00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:24.480
Let's start right off the bat, though, right with unconditional power and ultimately how you delineate between performing teams and achieving teams.

00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:27.840
What is the difference and help our listeners understand what they should be looking for?

00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:32.400
Well, I'm a big fan of making distinctions that are important, people often don't think about.

00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:38.640
And so everybody talks about high-performing teams, but I think in today's work world, it's not good enough.

00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:43.760
It's about high achieving teams, and really our framework is consistently high achieving teams.

00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:50.719
But here's the key difference the word performing can be confused with hard work versus achieving is about results.

00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:53.840
And we're all paid to produce results, not necessarily work hard.

00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:04.319
Some people might say, okay, I kind of get it, but think about it this way: as leaders, sometimes you might push on somebody to change and they and they often may respond with, Well, what do you want me to do?

00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:05.439
I'm working hard.

00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:08.000
And of course, we're not challenging somebody's work ethic.

00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:08.879
That's not the problem.

00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:10.240
It's about producing results.

00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:19.439
And in today's world where there's a lot of chaos, disruption, all kinds of things, it is about making those changes because it's all about producing results.

00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:25.520
So achievement, results, performance, hard work, and it's really about what is it going to take to achieve those outcomes and results.

00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:26.240
I love that.

00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:30.319
I've heard before, oftentimes don't mistake activity with results.

00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:41.360
And so if we're able to coach individuals not just to change the behaviors that they need to, but to your point, achieve the results that are expected inside of the organization, it frankly is a little bit of a double win.

00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:45.360
And I like that in terms of understanding that it's not about working hard.

00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:49.039
It's not about working smarter either.

00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:52.879
It's about understanding what you need to do to achieve the results that you're held accountable for.

00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:54.159
And leaders, they know this.

00:02:54.240 --> 00:03:02.240
I mean, they're going to be held accountable for the performance and achievement of those who report to them as well.

00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:05.280
So they better be achievers as well that are leading those groups.

00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.520
Steve, I know that this is go ahead.

00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:13.919
Yeah, I know I'm interrupting, but there's something also that's pertinent about this, is there's a lot of things that are going on.

00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:16.400
And sometimes people might say, but I have achieved.

00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:20.800
And my and our comeback is, yes, but we have to change as an organization.

00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:21.680
We have to evolve.

00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:23.759
In fact, I can give people another tip.

00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.080
Don't use the word change, use the word evolve.

00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:30.400
If you say I'm going to change something, somebody goes, Well, what's wrong with the way we've done it before?

00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:33.039
But if you say evolve, who can disagree with that?

00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:38.479
It's about, you know, if we're not progressing in life or regressing, there is no such thing as status quo.

00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:45.199
So a different frame is about evolving, but it still comes down to, yeah, it was achieving, but now we have to achieve different things.

00:03:45.520 --> 00:04:00.080
Steve, you touched on something that I've really been, you know, I'll use a term struggling with myself at times inside of that evolving, is that natural inclination that we as human beings have to just say it's good enough.

00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:05.120
And ultimately, we know that that results in complacency and we get stagnant.

00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:12.960
But that that word evolve absolutely, to me, indicates a continuous improvement type mindset that I'm always looking to get a little bit better.

00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:18.000
I have this healthy discontent, if you will, for the status quo and where I am today.

00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:25.120
And as leaders, we know that if we rest on our successes of the past, uh we're gonna be in we're gonna be in a world of hurt going forward.

00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:27.199
Steve, you've spent years developing this.

00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:33.360
You've written, I think the number was six different books, and you've got two or three more in the mix that are coming out.

00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:38.000
And this, you know, has evolved for you over the course of lifetime.

00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:44.240
One of the questions I always ask, especially first-time guests, is going back into their childhood and how they really got kind of started.

00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:52.240
So I'd like you to tell our listeners to what's a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a person or as a leader?

00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:53.120
Great question.

00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:59.120
When I think back to my childhood, I don't know how if it impacts me today or it's I've evolved.

00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:02.079
And so, but I can look at that as the root cause.

00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:03.680
And here's where I'm headed with this.

00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:06.240
I didn't start speaking until I was three and a half.

00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:07.600
It was things were off.

00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:10.800
I mean, I could speak, but the words weren't coming out correctly.

00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:16.319
So my uh parents took me to a doctor, and uh, actually, this isn't politically correct, but it's what happened.

00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.600
And the doctor said, Oh, your kid's mentally retarded.

00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:21.040
Back then, that's what they said.

00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:23.600
Again, not politically correct, but it is what it is.

00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:24.879
That's what the doctor said.

00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:30.079
My mom decided to get a second opinion because my grandmother was a teacher and said, Hey, we've got to get a second opinion.

00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:36.079
There's more to that story, but in essence, um, it turns out my ears were blocked, and so out of infections and whatnot.

00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:37.519
So that got corrected.

00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:42.399
But then as a result, I had to go through some speech therapy and I went to Easter Seals.

00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:44.399
Some people are familiar with that organization.

00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:52.399
And the reason why that impacted me was because at that age, I decided that I was just stupid, you know.

00:05:52.639 --> 00:06:00.240
Not that anybody told me that, my parents never did, but I, you know, I was like, look at what I'm doing, you know, and it kind of just it impacted me.

00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:03.199
So what I ended up doing was working extra hard.

00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:07.439
And I did really well in school, but it's because I worked really, really hard at it.

00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:18.399
But here's what's really interesting about today the audience I address are scientists, engineers, technical folks, a lot of people who don't, you know, communications kind of touchy feeling, they don't like that.

00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:28.720
But I can immediately identify with that audience with the kind of awkwardness or if you're feeling like you're not connecting, because out of that early experience, that actually shaped me.

00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:31.120
And also it was hard for me to make friends and stuff like that.

00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:36.480
And I'm saying this, not oh, feel sorry for me, but I'm definitely a product of this industry.

00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:40.240
So personal development, I it's impacted me.

00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:48.240
And a lot of the strategies I've used was or developed was because I wanted to figure out a strategy that I could that I could do.

00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:50.720
So it's all about building teamwork and whatnot.

00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:53.120
But anyway, that's the root cause back wave back then.

00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:54.160
Well, and I love that again.

00:06:54.240 --> 00:07:01.040
Again, we talked about that before we hit the record button, is that oftentimes we are most we're best positioned to help the person that we once were, right?

00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:05.680
And those are things, those are stories that exist, whether again, politically correct.

00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:26.240
They didn't know what that meant uh when we were kids in terms of understanding that, but ultimately recognizing that you know you had to overcome something pretty significant, uh, not just physically, but also, frankly, probably emotionally as well, as you uh grew up through that, that impacted you, that through your story, you're able to help others deal with many of those different things.

00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:32.160
I think that's what really makes it powerful in our world in terms of coaching and consulting, is helping that get through there.

00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:41.920
So, Steve, the latest book you had come out, Unconditional Power, a formula for thriving in any situation, no matter how frustrating, complex, and unpredictable.

00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:43.920
Why did you write that book now?

00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:45.519
And uh, who did you write it for?

00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:47.839
Well, I wrote it starting for me.

00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:56.560
Remember, I was just saying about I developed a lot of strategies around but first using it on myself and realizing that probably other people feel have dealt with this.

00:07:56.639 --> 00:07:58.160
And so here's the whole point of the book.

00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:01.600
The point is about when we're in a good mood, we're smarter, right?

00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:04.399
And so how do we make ourselves in a good mood?

00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.079
Well, I've suffered from moods.

00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:11.120
I wasn't like, you know, clinically depressed, but I I would get triggered and I would get down.

00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:18.240
And I noticed that, you know, it would take me a little bit of time, sometimes a few days on something bouncing back or whatever, various times.

00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:20.720
But there's some people they bounce back like that.

00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:25.839
I don't know if you have one of those friends, but I do, like Willie Jolly, he's a really great motivational speaker.

00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.160
He's always authentically in a good mood.

00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:30.319
Things happen, but he bounces right back.

00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:37.679
So I started to study what is it about some people that can bounce right back and other people that can't, and then what's the difference?

00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:45.519
And then as leaders, because we have to make sure everybody else is in a good mood, and I'm not talking about, you know, again, touchy-feely way.

00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:50.000
I'm just morale, you know, thinking positively, moving forward.

00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:51.600
What do we actually do?

00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:59.519
And so I studied and came up with nine strategies that are in the book, and all those strategies I can tell you that work because I use it on me.

00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:02.480
And here's an example intentional disruption.

00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:03.919
We all get down in life.

00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.879
But the question you want to ask yourself is what would you suggest?

00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.279
That's you could ask it of others and yourself.

00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:10.720
All right, stuff happens.

00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:12.080
What are we gonna do about it?

00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:18.320
You know, when I went through cancer, okay, I can't change that I had cancer, but I could change on how I responded to the cancer.

00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.320
So I'm fine now, but you know, going through recession, all kinds of stuff.

00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.960
We're all faced with challenges, but are we wallowing in the negativity or the challenge?

00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:28.799
Are we looking for the opportunity?

00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.360
And so that's an example of intentional disruption, which is one of the strategies in the book.

00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:34.159
You I love that.

00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:36.159
And I wanted to touch on those strategies.

00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:40.639
Even before that, though, I want to talk about because I mood discipline in terms of what you have.

00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:44.559
You've got this power continuum that you developed.

00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:52.879
But you know, this the three steps that you that you talk about, you feel powerless, it's conditional, or you feel powerful when you move to the left or right in terms of that space.

00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:58.320
How do you help leaders recognize first what's getting in their way when it comes to their mood?

00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:00.480
Well, we have to recognize about these three moods.

00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:04.000
So let me kind of back up because you, as you touched upon it, which is so critical.

00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:08.159
The framework of the book is that I've identified three overarching moods.

00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:13.600
The first type of mood, which we've all been in, we can self-identify, is feeling powerless, right?

00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:17.840
Something happens, and powerless is where we say to ourselves, what difference can I make?

00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:19.120
I'm only one person.

00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:25.440
Even as leaders, I've worked with a lot of CEOs, admirals, and generals, and at times it can feel very lonely.

00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:30.720
And it's like, well, yeah, I need to change all of the organization, but I'm only one person.

00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:32.879
Or somebody is maybe not the leader.

00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:34.559
And then again, you know, what can I do?

00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:42.000
I'm only one person, or one person in my marriage, or, you know, one person in a with a friendship or whatever, you know, feeling powerless.

00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.879
The second type of mood is conditionally powerful.

00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:51.120
That's where we recognize we have power, but it's conditional on other people, things, items.

00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:57.200
An example would be when people say, I can do that as long as that other department cooperates.

00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.080
I can do this as long as I have the right talent.

00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:06.399
You know, John, I can do that as long as we have the right funding, as long as we have the right leadership, as long as we have the right marketing.

00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:10.879
That doesn't sound that bad, but really what I'm doing is I'm creating an excuse.

00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:14.559
Although those conditions are legitimate, I'm giving away my power.

00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:16.559
But the desirable move is the third one.

00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.879
And that's where I realize that great leaders are unconditionally powerful.

00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:29.759
What I mean by unconditionally powerful is they recognize those conditions, but they spend a hundred percent of their energy on what they're going to do about it.

00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:35.120
So if the market's down, if the market's up, if you know, if we're growth, what do we do?

00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:37.200
You know, focusing on what we're gonna do.

00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:45.759
You lose a customer, spending 100% of your energy on what you're gonna do about it rather than oh, I can't believe this happened to me, and wallowing in again the the problem.

00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.120
So the desirable mood is unconditionally powerful.

00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.600
And that's what we want to do is have ourselves and others get to that space.

00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:55.039
Steven, I love that.

00:11:55.200 --> 00:12:04.559
And you know, as you talked about that, I I was talking back to the story that you shared inside of the book as well and the the cancer diagnosis that you went through, you know, several years ago.

00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:08.399
My guess is you went through all these moods when that happened as well.

00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:09.919
Was that something that occurred for you?

00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:10.720
Yeah, absolutely.

00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:19.200
In fact, my clients and a lot of people who have read the book and and people where I've taught this say what they appreciated about this distinction is you can self-identify.

00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:23.440
That a lot of distinctions, it kind of makes us feel awful to identify with that.

00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:24.960
An example would be victim, right?

00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:26.559
There's all this victim stuff.

00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:34.639
Well, people say I'm not a victim, I am, whatever, but you can identify, we can all identify, and me too, which is feeling powerless at times.

00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:36.399
There's no value judgment.

00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:37.679
I have felt powerless.

00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:38.879
We do feel powerless.

00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:41.519
Other times we do feel conditionally powerful, right?

00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:53.120
Um well, I gotta accomplish these goals, but I sure hope I have the right talent or I hope I have the right people around me, or I hope that uh that customer says yes on that big uh that big proposal.

00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:57.679
So those are, but the desirable mood is to be unconditionally powerful.

00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:03.759
And so when I say the desirable, it we can identify, but the question is then what's it going to take?

00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.360
Because really, when you identify, no one wants to feel powerless.

00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:10.720
We often reluctantly feel resigned to feel that way.

00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:20.080
So the neat thing that people have said about the book, among many, many things, but is you can I self-identify and then you see what to do to get yourself in an unconditionally powerful state.

00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:27.679
When you think about that, and you mentioned through the book many different stories, you protect uh the names of those individuals.

00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:28.960
But do you have one?

00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:41.440
And we'll talk about your strategy, a couple of your strategies here in a little bit as well, but a specific story with a client uh where you're most proud of that you've worked with over time as well, who's made that transition from you know powerless to unconditionally powerful.

00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:42.879
Well, I'll give you an example.

00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:45.360
So there's I have a client, I mean, there's many, many clients.

00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:52.480
In fact, I was just on a call this morning on a coaching call around helping leader change the whole mindset of her department.

00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:57.200
But an example of a client that uh we have among many is where they actually took that.

00:13:57.279 --> 00:13:59.759
Remember I was saying about performance and achievement?

00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:07.360
First, they took that whole simple distinction and they said, we're gonna stop doing about performance, we're gonna do about achievement.

00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.000
And I'll come back to the powerless in a moment and powerful.

00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:15.360
Uh but what they ended up doing, really interesting, is they said, Are we performing or achieving?

00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.600
And so they looked at their entire bureaucracy and cut out all the stuff that was performance.

00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:22.720
Instead of performance reviews, why not do achieving reviews?

00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:25.679
You know, and things like that, a different focus.

00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:41.679
And then they also took this distinction and they went throughout the entire organization, they made it mandatory reading for various leaders, and they actually use this terminology, and so they're very sensitive to conditional mindset so that they can move to unconditionally powerful.

00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:49.600
Because here's the thing that people have said when you become aware of these distinctions, you you're able to help out other people.

00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:54.000
A lot of times people feel conditionally, but they've never identified it that way.

00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:57.600
So they just kind of live in this conditional world, but they're thinking they're powerful.

00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:02.879
But when we see there's like this third dimension, unconditionally powerful, we move in that way.

00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:07.759
So, right now, that client constantly reminds their entire workforce on that.

00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.000
And there's going through a lot of changes as well.

00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:11.200
But that's an example.

00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:18.480
I mean, there's many, many times I was with an organization last week and changing the team from being kind of conditional to unconditional, powerful.

00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:20.240
But anyway, I don't know if that's I love that.

00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:24.399
And again, as I think about that, the economy leaders, hope you're enjoying the episode so far.

00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.000
I believe in doing business with people you like and trust and not just a company name.

00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:32.240
That's why a strong personal brand is essential, whether you're an entrepreneur or a leader within a company.

00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:39.519
Brand Builders Group, the folks who have been helping me refine my own personal brand, are offering a free consultation call with one of their expert brand strategists.

00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:45.360
They'll help you identify your uniqueness, craft a compelling story, and develop a step-by-step plan to elevate your impact.

00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:55.840
So head on over to CoachJongGallagher.com slash BBG, as in brand builders group, schedule your free call and take the first step toward building a personal brand that gets you noticed for all the right reasons.

00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:59.200
That's coachjohngallagher.com slash BBG.

00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:00.799
Now, let's get back to the episode.

00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:05.120
That was one of the strategies that I want to talk about too was the awareness.

00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:06.960
And you have that as the first strategy.

00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:12.159
You've got to be aware of the mood, if you will, that you're in if you get started.

00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.799
How have you helped others be aware of that?

00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:17.840
By by learning these three different moods.

00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:22.320
So, for example, I, you know, when I was starting to create this stuff and studying people, right?

00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:26.399
Everybody said, you know, some people feel powerful, motivated, but I was like, what is it?

00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:30.240
And then I started to identify with that, and I could identify with that.

00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:32.879
And so then you so bringing awareness.

00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:36.399
So one of the strategies in the book is make the unaware aware.

00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:41.440
And making the unaware aware is letting your entire organization be aware of it.

00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.879
So here's an example of what I mean.

00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:49.519
I had a client who took that distinction, and people came into his office and were complaining about an operational problem.

00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:52.559
And he said, Okay, where are we at on this continuum?

00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:53.600
He just asked it.

00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.080
And people said, Oh, we're being conditional.

00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:01.919
And then all he said was, How would we approach this problem if we're being unconditionally powerful?

00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:03.679
And he facilitated a conversation.

00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:08.559
He said, actually, within about five, 10 minutes, they had come up with solutions and the team moved out.

00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:10.400
He didn't give them the solution.

00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:14.400
He just reminded them and brought awareness around that distinction.

00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:15.680
So that would be an example.

00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:24.079
No, and I love that as an example because many times it's the unrealized potential that exists inside of an individual that they just can't see.

00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:24.319
Right.

00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:30.319
And to be to your point, they hand over their power, if you will, to some condition that exists.

00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:36.160
Well, I'll never be able to do that because of X, or I'll never be able to, and it's those limiting beliefs that exist inside of their space.

00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:51.920
And to your point, I I believe one of the most uh advantageous uh skills that a leader has is the ability to help someone realize the gap between you know where they are and where they could be, where their potential really identifies where they could be.

00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:59.839
So to help them become aware of it and then only ask them a question where they get to the answer, if you will, uh on their own is pretty powerful.

00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:05.359
And if you're able to do that, Steve, that's that's really uh says a bunch for your leadership skills as well.

00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:11.279
Well, I was you're saying such an important point is to having the conversation, talking to them and helping them see the potential.

00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:21.519
And that really comes down to the a reminder I've found over the years is the biggest problem in the workplace and in teams and organizations is lack of honest communication.

00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:26.000
And what I mean by that is not about the ethics, but it's about what people don't say to each other.

00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:35.920
People don't give that feedback, they or they bring people down, they just tell people what they can't do or the problem, but they don't say, I see so much potential in you, or whatever it is.

00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:39.920
But getting that unsaid said, like here's an interesting frame.

00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:46.480
Have a really up or I found over the years is have a really blunt but caring conversation.

00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:51.119
Give that person feedback and then say to them, uh, look, I know you can do this.

00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:52.079
I believe in you.

00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:57.279
Somebody said years ago, let other people borrow your eyes until they can see it for themselves.

00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.400
Let other people borrow your eyes until they can see it for themselves.

00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:04.000
And I love that because great lead, that's the vision.

00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:08.880
So saying to somebody, Well, I don't know I could do that, is you say to that person, you're playing small.

00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.200
I believe in you and I know you can do it.

00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:15.920
And I'm not gonna let up until you see that greatness because it benefits us all.

00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:21.279
That's having the tough conversation, but leaving them in an optimistic, motivated fashion.

00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:28.960
Steve, you touched on, I mean, the blunt but caring conversation, you know, the definition of candor, if you will.

00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:37.680
Uh and you like to use two by two frameworks in your book, and we'll talk about those another one here at energy, but that blunt but caring is the two by two framework.

00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:43.119
If you only deliver that feedback bluntly without caring, you're gonna be seen as a bully.

00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:44.319
Okay, there's no doubt about it.

00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:47.680
You're gonna you're gonna be put into a spot where like, what is in the world?

00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:57.039
But if you only deliver caring feedback, being nice to them without being blunt, pointing out what you see as the gap, that's where you really run into a problem as well.

00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:02.400
You're being really nice to them, but nobody's gonna grow, and then you're not gonna grow as well because again, they're on your team.

00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:13.359
And so the leader who has the ability to be both blunt but caring, I often refer to it as truth with grace, okay, is the one that's going to have the largest impact.

00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:31.440
It goes back to that performance review that I had 20 plus years ago that I talked to you before we hit the record button here that said I had a mentor who was giving me blunt feedback, no doubt about it, true feedback, but delivered in such a way that I knew that he cared about me as well.

00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:33.599
And that put me in a position where I had a choice.

00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:36.640
I had to choose back to your even three points.

00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:41.759
I could remain powerless or conditional there or to take responsibility what I wanted to do to grow.

00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.720
I knew that he was going to support me, and that's the leader we need to be.

00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:45.119
Absolutely.

00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:46.079
Something else too.

00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.319
It's like we need to ask people for feedback.

00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:59.279
And that, you know, and you know, I there's a theme I kind of want to make sure uh hopefully it's coming across is I teach this stuff with great passion because I've used the strategies because I've messed up so many times.

00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:00.559
I'll give you an example.

00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:05.039
The value of asking feedback and creating a safe space for people to tell you the truth.

00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.319
But then are we ready for it?

00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.079
So some years ago, uh I had an employee leave and uh who was great.

00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:11.759
She was an excellent EA.

00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:14.319
And I said to her, Wow, I'm sorry that you're gonna go.

00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:16.319
And she said, Yeah, she was going to get her master's.

00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:17.359
And I said, Okay, great.

00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:18.960
And I said, Is there any other feedback?

00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:26.480
And I remember her kind of hesitating, and then she proceeded to tell me, and she said, you know, when I came to work for you, I was very confident.

00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.400
I'm now leaving the most unconfident I've ever been in my life.

00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:32.319
And that crushed me.

00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.160
I mean, my gosh, what was I doing?

00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.680
I started to realize I was a lousy manager, and here's what I did.

00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.039
I have high expectations, and I'm very hard on myself.

00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:45.359
So I was very critical, and I and I'm programmed to look at the problems, right?

00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:51.039
And so I realized I was lousy at appreciation, lousy at saying when things were going well.

00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:56.400
And I was thinking I'm driving her and everyone around me to keep excelling.

00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:07.519
But what I was really doing was constantly being critical, although maybe my criticisms were correct in certain points, it lost the whole frame and it lost proportion.

00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:08.880
And so I changed.

00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:10.960
And so here's the neat end to the story.

00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:13.279
She came back to work for me and she works for me today.

00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:14.400
She's fantastic.

00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.400
Thankfully, she forgave me.

00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:17.440
And I learned.

00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:19.200
So we got to get that feedback.

00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:24.240
And to your point, when you receive that feedback, we all grow in life, but we only grow when we hear that tough feedback.

00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:29.519
Oh, and then I mean, there's geez, we could spend a 30-minute conversation just on that topic right there.

00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:36.400
You've got to put people in your life, right, that are going to be candid with you and give you blunt but caring feedback.

00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:43.920
Last thing I need is, you know, people telling me how good I'm doing ultimately and and not give me any feedback on how I can grow, how I can learn.

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:52.400
So we've got to give people permission to do that, to give us that feedback and create that safe space to your point so that we don't respond to it.

00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:57.519
But seek out those individuals who will give us the feedback that we need as well.

00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:59.119
So, so important, so important.

00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:01.759
Like I said, I could spend I could spend a lot of time talking about that.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:03.440
And I just want to see, I know, I don't know.

00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.599
We're all like feeding off each other because this is like I I think and I think it really is important.

00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:08.960
It's the art of the conversation.

00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:11.759
I mean that we got to reward people for their feedback.

00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:20.720
So I see this a lot where organizations do these employee surveys or they get feedback and they don't do anything with it, or they go, Well, these are this is what the results say.

00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:23.039
Okay, great, but what are you doing with that?

00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:25.920
So it's so important, and it can't take a long time.

00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.599
We got to move out on it.

00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.240
So you getting feedback, myself getting feedback.

00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:34.240
It's one thing asking feedback, but then we got to do something with it as we've talked about.

00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:42.480
So I just want to remind people how it's really important because that's a great way to positively reinforce somebody and thank them rather than just say, thank you for sharing.

00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:43.519
Well, that doesn't do anything.

00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:45.759
Steve goes back to your power continuum, right?

00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.359
I mean, are we truly giving them power ultimately for us to do something about?

00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:53.839
Because I can once I get that feedback as well, I can rationalize my behavior all day long.

00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:58.000
Well, I was like that because of this conditional uh type power, right?

00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:02.640
With regards to I, you know, they they treated me that way, so I turned it back around.

00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:08.319
I mean, so many different things we can rationalize, and we know rational lies is exactly what they are.

00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:14.160
But I think, you know, those those pictures, those small pictures that you drew uh inside the book, the different frameworks are so cool.

00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:29.359
One of the ones that caught my eyes, and I want to spend a little time, uh put a pen in and spend some time, was the uh energy modes that you had, the four different energy modes, uh, where you had someone who's pessimistic or optimistic, as well as an observer and/or someone who's a celebrator as well.

00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.400
Tell me a little bit about how that how that framework came about.

00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:34.000
I'm sure there's a story behind it as well.

00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:35.599
Well, again, you're right.

00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:41.119
It it came out of, well, some people are optimistic, but they're quietly optimistic.

00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:43.440
Well, that doesn't necessarily help out as a leader.

00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:47.200
You have to be what we call a generator, which we'll get to in a moment.

00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:55.359
So I realize that, but let me just touch on there's a reason why I say uh optimistic and pessimistic, draw that distinction versus positive and negative.

00:24:55.519 --> 00:25:01.440
I I don't know about you, but for a long time I would teach about the value of positive thinking and and all that stuff.

00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:06.960
I would get pushback and from people that say, well, uh, who's maybe somebody negative?

00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:08.000
Well, I'm being realistic.

00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:10.480
And then I thought, well, you know, they do make a good point.

00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:14.319
They look at negative things and somebody's positive, the positive things.

00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:21.119
But then so I I realize the better distinction is optimistic and pessimistic because here's the difference.

00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:28.640
An optimistic and a pessimist, the way I see this is they both are realistic, but it's about how they view the outcome.

00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.720
So a pessimistic person looks at the situation and says, We're doomed.

00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:40.240
An optimistic person looks at the situation and say, We got problems, we got to work on this, but I know we can, I know there's an answer.

00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:41.920
I know we're gonna grow from it.

00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:43.920
It's just the way we view things.

00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:54.400
Well, when you look at and study leadership, as I know you have, is is leaders uh that are more optimistic and passionate about the future are more attractive to work with.

00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:58.160
I don't mean attractive in a physical way, I mean you want to follow that person.

00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:00.720
So optimistic and pessimistic is important.

00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:06.559
The other distinction on that grid, and then we'll put it all together, is being uh an observer or a generator.

00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:12.880
So some people are observers, they sit back and read the room, sounds good, but they're waiting for other people.

00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:14.640
Other people are generators.

00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:21.119
So there are people on the pessimistic side who are uh you could say observers.

00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:28.480
They don't say aren't doomers, you know, they're not gonna be real going down the uh bad situation unless other people are.

00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:32.240
But the worst people are what I call, you know, the doomers.

00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:39.039
Doomers are people walk in a room and they're ready to just say, we're messed up, it's never gonna work.

00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:40.880
So they seize the moment.

00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:43.599
But the way to counteract that is to be a booster.

00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:45.039
And forget about the words.

00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:53.920
The key is walking in a situation and before anybody else sees the moment and say, we got problems, but we're gonna figure out an answer and then get to it.

00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:57.759
A generator who has optimism, absolutely, in terms of making that happen.

00:26:57.920 --> 00:26:59.599
Just love the distinction between the two.

00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:06.720
And we can, you know, Saturday Night Live can keep playing with the Debbie Downers and things like that with regards to those who are doomers.

00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:14.640
Uh, we don't need we don't need them in our life, let alone in our organizations that are that are making change or trying to make change.

00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.880
Steve, I appreciate this, you know, in terms of that book.

00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:22.480
And I think you know, folks would find your nine strategies to be very powerful and that they should pick up a copy of your book.

00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:25.920
Uh we've just talked about a couple of those today, as well as a couple of the frameworks.

00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:27.359
What else you got going on?

00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:27.920
What's next?

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:29.200
What what are you working on right now?

00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:39.680
Well, we just actually a year ago, we launched an online system, and it's uh as far as we know, it's the only online system in which it teaches people how to be a high-achieving team.

00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:44.799
So it's a learning uh online system, but it has an AI overlay.

00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:54.160
So here's what I mean by that is you just go on the system and put in the issue, and it not only will answer that, but it actually shows which videos to watch with the team.

00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:55.279
So it's a learning model.

00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:59.519
It's not like just ChatGPT or AI, I'm not talking about that, but it's able to do that.

00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:12.079
And the reason why that's important is if you think about it, there's a lot of leadership stuff out there, there's communication stuff out there, but there's not about how anyone can create and sustain a great team.

00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:16.640
And so this system is now being used by a lot of organizations, and we're real proud about it.

00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:19.119
So if they want information, we can send that to them as well.

00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:19.839
Love that.

00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:22.640
And and Steve, I'm gonna give you the last word here, the last question.

00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:28.880
But how can folks get in touch with you, learn more about your online system andor uh what you've got going on and stay connected with you?

00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:29.440
Thank you.

00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:32.400
So we do a lot of you know one-on-one and teamwork stuff.

00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:41.119
But if they go to justbehonest.com, so there's a lot of ways to get to our overall website, and then there's an honest communication calculator, a team elf calculator.

00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:43.119
There's a lot of stuff that they can get on there.

00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:51.119
That's no cost, but anyway, if they go to justbehonest.com, that's justbehonest.com, and they can get all that information, then contact us from there.

00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:54.000
Steve will make sure to put a link to the show notes in that, folks.

00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:57.279
I would I would encourage you to go take a look at what he's got going on.

00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:02.960
I'd I'd love the the conversation about honest candor and what that really means in the frameworks that you talk about.

00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:05.839
Steve, I know that the folks have uh found some value in this.

00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:07.039
I would yeah, go ahead.

00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:07.359
Go ahead.

00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:08.160
I know I'm interrupting.

00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:10.559
I just always like to give people something.

00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:17.200
So if they if they mention your show and they go on our website, justbehonest.com, and you know there's a way to contact us, mention the show.

00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:21.200
I'll I'll send them a framework of how to have the most difficult conversations.

00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:24.160
There's nine steps, and we'll send them that framework for free.

00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:27.200
All they have to do is just go on there, mention the show, and we'll send it to them.

00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:28.640