Oct. 7, 2025

Episode 187: From Ivy League to Incarceration - Ken Miller’s Journey of Redemption and Leadership

Ken Miller’s story is one of radical resilience. From growing up in the foster care system to attending Dartmouth, battling addiction, and serving time as a three-time felon, Ken’s journey is a testament to the power of second chances.

In this episode of The Uncommon Leader Podcast, host John Gallagher sits down with Ken to explore:

👉His spiritual awakening and mindset shift
👉The leadership lessons learned behind bars
👉How he built five successful businesses
👉His mentorship philosophy for Black men
👉The message behind his book Becoming Ken
👉His billboard mantra: “Forgive others and self. Today.”

Ken reminds us that your past doesn’t define your future—and that leadership starts with authenticity, respect, and grace.

🔗 Resources & Links
📘 Get Ken’s book Becoming Ken on Amazon
🌐 Visit kenmillerspeaks.com
📲 Connect with Ken on LinkedIn: @KenMiller84
🎯 Watch the full episode: https://youtu.be/WmficLeNcaA
🔔 Subscribe for weekly leadership insights

#UncommonLeaderPodcast #ResilientLeadership #FaithDrivenGrowth #KenMillerSpeaks #BecomingKen #SecondChances #LiveBoldly

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00:00 - Becoming Ken: Claiming a New Name

01:09 - Host Introduction and Ken’s Journey Frame

02:13 - The Arrest, Addiction, and a Turning Point

05:20 - Early Life, Foster Care, and Ivy League

08:40 - Homelessness, Prison, and a Sobriety Pivot

12:10 - Mindset, Pain Tolerance, and True Change

15:20 - A Jailhouse Conversation With God

18:05 - Rebuilding: Physical, Intellectual, Emotional, Spiritual

21:00 - Respect Defined Across Communities

25:05 - Mentorship: Permission to Dream

28:20 - Leadership Lessons After Prison

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And if I can do it, you can do it.

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And then do it with a smile, do it with laughter, do it with grace, do it with tolerance, and do it with probably the most important word, which is love.

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And so, David, so when you see that book, because look at the title, there's a very important reason why that title is becoming ten.

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I'm Ken today.

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I'm a kind and gentle 62-year-old black male.

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But before you didn't call me Ken.

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You called me my street name or my concentration, or you call me ex-convict, or you call me arm robber, or you call me kidnapper.

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All the things I have done.

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That's what you call me.

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You call me drug addict or crackhead or alcoholic.

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That's what you called me.

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But today just call me Ken.

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It's not Mr.

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Miller, you know, whatever certificates I have behind my name.

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It's not that.

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Just call me Ken.

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And that's what I became.

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And I'm very, very comfortable with being that.

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So when you see that book and you see Becoming Ken, become the best you because you can.

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Uncommon leaders, welcome back.

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This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast.

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I'm your host, John Gallagher, and today I'm honored to have a guest whose journey truly embodies the spirit of an uncommon leader.

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He's gone from Ivy League to incarceration, from prison to the president of Denali Financial Strategies and Planning.

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Quite a story that we're going to learn a lot about today.

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And he's the author of the powerful new book, Becoming Ken.

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Those of you watched on YouTube, you can see it behind his shoulder and a QR code to learn more about him as well.

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But he's a true testament to what I think is the power of resilience.

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He's a champion for those who believe in second chances.

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We're going to learn a lot about that as well.

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And a living example that your past does not define your future, and that we are most powerfully positioned to help the people that we once were.

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So we're going to get to the core of that as we go through it and ultimately how we can lead from authenticity and from purpose.

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So, Ken, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast.

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Great to have you on the show.

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How are you doing today?

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Oh, I'm doing fantastic.

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I'm looking forward to it.

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And thank you, John, for inviting me to be a guest.

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Absolutely, Ken.

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Well, we're going to get into it right off the bat.

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I'm going to jump right into your book and I'm going to read an excerpt from your introduction that's going to kick things off and get you going right off the bat.

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So here's what it said.

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I still had a single rock of crack in my pocket.

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And for one of the only times in my life, I didn't smoke it.

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Instead, I decided to sell it.

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Let me say that again.

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I was a chronic user with a pipe in hand day and night, yet I was about to hand that rock to someone else.

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Could that have been divine intervention?

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Who knows?

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But I approached a car in the Quick Mart lot that in hindsight screamed undercover.

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I handed the driver the rock, took the 20, and turned away.

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And then sirens shouting, hands pulling me down onto scorching asphalt.

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Yeah, I was there.

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That's me.

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But you know, how do how did I get there?

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You know, how did I get there?

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Yeah, before we get started, I've always liked to allow the listeners and the people that are looking and observing this podcast to understand that today I'm a successful businessman.

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I own five businesses.

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I'm very successful in a lot of worlds.

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And we'll get a chance, hopefully, to talk about some of those.

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But to get to that point, I had to overcome some obstacles and overcome really me.

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You know, you can blame it on environmental, you can blame it on, you know, people, how they've treated you.

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But in the end, it was a lot of it was my self-talk and how I looked at the world.

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So to set a foundation, to set the table for who I am today, but how I got to the person I am to be an uncommon leader.

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Let's start off at birth.

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1962, my mother was a white teenage runaway.

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My dad was a black pimp and drug dealer.

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That's what he was.

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I am the byproduct of that quote-unquote relationship.

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I was put up for adoption at birth.

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Biracial children were not very common in 1962.

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In some places, it would have been even worse, but this was New York at least.

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And so I was put up for adoption.

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And I went through, I wasn't adopted, but I went through the foster care system for six years.

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At age six, I was adopted by Irene and Sam Miller.

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At that point, I could not read, I could not write, I could not tell time, nor could I even tie my shoes at age six.

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So I had to learn something in that first few months.

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But I was broken going into that relationship.

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I fell in love with reading once I was taught how to read.

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And by the second grade, I was reading at the fifth grade level.

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I was what you would call precocious.

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I was a national merit scholar at age 17.

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I was accepted to Harvard.

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I went to Dartmouth Ivy League as my undergrad.

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And while in Dartmouth, I unfortunately graduated with a major in fraternity with a minor in drinking.

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That was my major.

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But I did get out.

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Went to my first treatment center, and I can go through this somewhat quickly.

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Within two years, I relapsed off of my first opportunity of being sober at age 21.

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And by the time I was 23, I was homeless.

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And I mean homeless on the streets.

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And I was to spend the next 20 years either homeless in treatment and halfway houses or incarcerated.

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I am a three-time convicted felon.

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I've been to prison three different occasions.

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And on the last bit, I did three years for the drug sales of a$10 rock of crack cocaine.

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But I always remember what the judge said to me at that point when I was being sentenced for the third felony.

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He said to me, Mr.

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Miller, if you come in my courtroom one more time, and a felony is stealing$51 as a felony in the state of Nevada.

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He said, I will give you the habitual criminal statute, which is 25 to life.

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That was in 2004.

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Some people say, Did you believe him?

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I tell people, I still believe him.

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What do you mean, did I believe him?

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I still believe in him.

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And then 21 years later, I just celebrated 21 years clean and sober on the 23rd of September of this year.

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So I have some time underneath my, but there was still a lot of growth.

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But that gets you a just a very basic on some of the things that I had to overcome.

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There are more, but we call it resilience.

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But really what it is is the comeback from the setback.

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And I had a few setbacks along the way.

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And you know, even when I got out, there were some things I still needed to work on just to be able to do life well.

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I appreciate you sharing.

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Uh and then again, the other word we kind of talked about even before we hit the record button was vulnerability in terms of sharing your story.

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And yeah, overcome would be uh one of the words, resilience would be another word, and you know, adversity, you know.

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I mean, some people face adversity when they try to get into school, but you've clearly faced a significant amount of adversity uh on your way to success.

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Now, it might have been that moment uh where you heard that and maybe you still hear that today, but what's been the most difficult mindset shift for you to move from you know the challenges that you had, and you probably frankly uh still face those challenges every day, personally in your mind, to success?

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I don't face too many challenges to success.

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I am successful.

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I'm also well, and what I mean by that is I do life well.

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There's a thing we call the vicissitudes of life.

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Those are the ups and downs.

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I handle them well.

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I'm competent to life, but I solve the same problems in any other human.

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I have relationship situations.

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We have health issues with older cohort.

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There's financial things that happen in my businesses.

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I own five businesses.

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So believe me, between the five, there's financial things that come up.

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But I'm competent to them, or I have individuals that either work for me or contract with me that are competent and can handle, let's say, the business part.

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But I you you had mentioned something about what the judge said.

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What the judge said didn't really resonate.

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I remember it.

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I remember it very well, but that wasn't going to change me.

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I've been threatened with a lot of things.

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I've been threatened with guns, with knives, with you know, sentences, uh, with uh the prosecutor.

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So I've been threatened.

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That part doesn't make change for me, you know, because all it is to me is you're threatening me with more pain.

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I have a very high pain threshold.

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You could not live the way I lived as a street level addict and alcoholic without having a high pain threshold.

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But then again, the pain threshold is limited.

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And at some point you want the pain to end, and that's when suicide becomes a viable.

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And I've been I've had suicide attempts, two of them years ago.

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So I'm not there anymore.

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But anyway, I would like to just talk real quick about the pivot.

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So I I was arrested September 22nd, 2004.

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And uh I went into jail.

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I celebrate September 23rd, is my sobriety date.

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It's the day after I was arrested.

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October of that year, 2004, I was laying on my bunk, Unit 13, Parr Boulevard, which is in the jail for Washoe County in Nevada.

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And God spoke to me.

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God's been speaking to me often, and you can define it any way you want to, but it's a conversation I'm having in my head that is outside of my needs, wants, desires that I would say is positive.

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And so what the conversation very simply said is that your journey is not going to be without discomfort, it's not going to be without pain, but I will be there.

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And together we can walk through this.

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We can walk through this.

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And ever since that day, I've been cool.

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I've been cool.

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I've had definitely challenges and setbacks and and things, but I've never used, I've never hurt anyone physically, I've never uh threatened anyone.

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Well, I could have a threat, but that's just a threat.

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But I've I've been I've been on the journey.

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The journey still consists of doing a lot.

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But once that happened, the at least the use of a chemical to change my perception of reality left me.

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That what left me was the choice and the decision.

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Really, the decision.

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The choice is always there.

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It's what you decide, because a decision is a choice with action behind it.

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And what I've decided is I will never pick up volitionally a mind-altering chemical.

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Okay, so that part's taken care of.

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I go to prison, I was sentenced to six years for a$10 rock of crack cocaine.

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I went into prison, I said to myself that if I'm the same person going into prison that I am coming out, or I'm the same person coming out that I am going in, I'm gonna have the same results.

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So I had to work on the physical, I had to work on the intellectual, I had to work on the emotional, and I had to work on the spiritual.

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And I work on that.

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And once I did that over the next three years, because a lot I did three years, at least gave me footing to deal with society and the world and my exterior or external world.

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I still had things I had to work on.

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I still had to learn how to be, you know, be a businessman, how to be a leader, how to work with a team, and then also how to deal with some of the things that I had that was baggage that I had since I was a child.

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And I worked on them.

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And I this is my belief.

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I've been good for about four years.

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I mean, I've got to the level, and and this is real important that I say this, John.

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I've said it on a few other occasions.

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Because I am well, I can give out, and that's what I do.

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I give out for free often.

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Or if you're a client, or if you hire me to speak, but I give out.

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I'm not worried about always working on me.

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I'm good with good.

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I'm good with very good.

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I don't need to be great.

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I don't have the capacity to be great.

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I'm 62.

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If I'm gonna be great in anything, I'm gonna be a great grandfather to the kids.

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I'm gonna be a great husband, but I don't worry about being great in business.

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I don't worry about being great on podcasts or speaking.

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I want to be very good so that I can now give this gift to give back to others.

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And again, you talk about that journey, even in those three years, how do you you had to prepare yourself spiritually, emotionally, uh, again, as a leader inside of that space.

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You come out and you know, you probably don't become a successful business person right off the bat when you come out.

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But were there disciplines that you learn there that you still use today to be successful in your business to help you get through those times?

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100%.

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There are lessons that you can learn in the penitentiary if you so choose that will bear well for you.

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You can learn lessons anywhere.

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You can learn them in the street on the streets, you can learn them in the boardroom, you can learn them on the sporting fields.

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I learned things from sports about being a team player, about being a leader on a team.

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But I learned in prison the best thing I learned in prison is how to treat people with respect.

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Because if you don't do it, there will be repercussions.

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And so, what is respect?

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So I'm writing a whole book.

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It's my next book that's coming out, is on respect and disrespect.

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And it's also, and it's talking about respect in the communities, whether it's the boardroom or on the streets or in the family.

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But what does respect mean?

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What is disrespect?

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And how do you increase your respect for others?

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But anyway, respect is one thing, real simple.

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It's acknowledgement of a person's position or stature within a community.

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And the community could be the community of the family.

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We have a thing called when we talk about our elders, our G Ma or grandmothers.

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You know, my children give me, I'm talking the grandchildren, give me respect because I'm the G PA.

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Okay.

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When we talk about on in on the streets, I got respect as a drug dealer because you need to acknowledge my position as a drug dealer.

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When I'm in the boardroom and I'm the board chair, and I've been I've chaired a few boards over the years.

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You respect that.

00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:23.200
I used to tell people, I said, go to your first board meeting and see sit in the board chairperson's seat.

00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:24.720
Try that one, okay?

00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:34.879
Because you're not respecting that individual, usually sits at a certain position where that person can take an input from either side of the room, either the side of the table, whatever.

00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:41.840
But and it's also a position of respect because our eyes are drawn to that individual at the end of the table as the chair.

00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:47.919
Yeah, and there's hundreds of examples, but I learned that, and then there's one last community.

00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:49.600
We are all children of God.

00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:50.799
That's this is my belief.

00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:55.679
I'm not gonna go into you know spiritual or Bible or anything like that, but we're children of God.

00:14:55.759 --> 00:15:05.279
There's a greater community that I will treat you with respect because I will acknowledge that you're a child of God, and therefore I treat everyone with respect.

00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.240
Can I love that?

00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:35.279
And as you were going through that respect definition and that level of authority that exists, there was a biblical picture as you said that that came to my mind as you walked through that and understanding that uh it's not about necessarily just position as well, but there's also influence that comes into play there and an overall, you know, golden rule philosophy of uh if we want to be treated a certain way, then we should be respecting and treating others a certain way as well.

00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:36.399
Thank you for sharing that.

00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:45.759
Again, outside of that, from a biblical perspective, I absolutely think it's there in that we're called to respect authority uh as individuals and recognize that.

00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:51.919
Now, again, in your business, the other side of what you've talked about, the success in your business is also mentorship.

00:15:52.159 --> 00:16:03.519
And that's become really important for you on your journey, also, whether it's as a the director or chairman of a board or in and it might be uh in some other space outside of the business.

00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:08.159
Is there a specific story that you have maybe in the past few years in your mentorship?

00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.200
And common leaders, hope you're enjoying the episode so far.

00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:14.720
I believe in doing business with people you like and trust and not just a company name.

00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.960
That's why a strong personal brand is essential, whether you're an entrepreneur or a leader within a company.

00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:26.240
Brand Builders Group, the folks who have been helping me refine my own personal brand, are offering a free consultation call with one of their expert brand strategists.

00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:32.080
They'll help you identify your uniqueness, craft a compelling story, and develop a step-by-step plan to elevate your impact.

00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:42.559
So head on over to CoachJongGallagher.com slash BBG, as in brand builders group to schedule your free call and take the first step toward building a personal brand that gets you noticed for all the right reasons.

00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:46.000
That's coachjohngallagher.com slash BBG.

00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:47.679
Now, let's get back to the episode.

00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:55.200
Uh extremely, uh let's say, uh inspired by or encouraged by uh the relationship that you've had and the and the success that you've had.

00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:55.600
Okay.

00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.440
So I've been mentoring for 15 years.

00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:59.200
I mentor men of color.

00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:00.480
I don't mentor women.

00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:02.639
I don't mentor Caucasians.

00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:04.720
That's my choice, my decision.

00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:06.000
I'm comfortable with it.

00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:13.119
And I also know that there's such a need for black male mentorship within the black male community.

00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:17.200
I've been doing it, I've mentored probably 40, 50 men.

00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.359
I have active 12 right now.

00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.559
At one point I had 28 active, but I had to call it back.

00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:22.880
Sure.

00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.720
But I just want to get to the mentorship part and then tell you the story.

00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.160
So when I sit down with a man, now it's all Zoom.

00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:37.440
I used to do them all in person, but when I sit down with a man, the first thing I do is I say, you know, this, we're here to talk about being mentored.

00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:39.759
This is an explicit relationship.

00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:42.799
It is free, it is open-ended.

00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:47.680
I've been mentoring my oldest gentleman for 15 years regularly.

00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:58.000
Then after we've got the foundation built, the footing built, I look them in the eye and I say very simply, I have one responsibility to you.

00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:02.559
And that responsibility is to engender your dream.

00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:04.400
What is your dream?

00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:07.599
And I give you permission to dream.

00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.400
And then I shut up.

00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:15.839
And I've had guys say 10 minutes because a lot of times people have pulled away or taken from them the ability to dream.

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:17.440
So we define the dream.

00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:18.640
So now we'll bring it up.

00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:19.920
Five years ago, four or five years.

00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:21.359
Remember, I've been doing this for 15 years.

00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:25.599
About four or five years ago, one of my mentees calls me up and he said, Hey, Ken, can we meet?

00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:27.920
You know, over lunch or something like that.

00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:29.279
And I said, Coffee usually.

00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:30.160
I said, sure.

00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.440
And uh I meet with him and he said it came true.

00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:35.119
I'm like, I said, what?

00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:39.680
He said, remember we sat down and I had this dream for this, this, and this to happen.

00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:41.200
And he began crying.

00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:47.519
A grown black man began crying because his dream became true.

00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:48.720
It became a truth.

00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:50.079
And he was there to thank me.

00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:51.599
And I'm like, no, you did it.

00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:54.480
I put certain things in place and I supported you.

00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.359
So maybe I didn't give you a couple dollars to do this or that.

00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:01.920
That's no big you did because I always wanted to always go back to you.

00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:03.359
But he's crying.

00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:09.839
And this is a six foot two, three, 230-pound boxer that had a dream, and that dream came true.

00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:11.279
So people ask me, why do I do it?

00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.839
And I have another one like that, but that I'll just use that one.

00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:14.720
That's why I do it.

00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:17.039
Because it's the right thing to do, is why I do it.

00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:21.920
But when you get that type of feedback, you're like, why would I even question doing this?

00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:23.279
I never have questioned.

00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:25.599
I've been doing it, like I said, 15 years straight.

00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:27.839
Ken, I love that from the mentoring standpoint.

00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:33.359
And I giving someone the permission to dream, defining what that dream is to them right from the start.

00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:42.799
Because once they do know what that dream is and that they can articulate what that dream is, it's then, to your point, and you said this earlier, you can then make a choice.

00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:56.400
Because, you know, I've often said that the displeasure that you will change, you will move toward that dream when the displeasure of remaining where you are is greater than the discomfort of the change itself that's going to require.

00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:02.480
Because once you've made that dream and you've communicated that, you've articulated that, now you've got a choice to make.

00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.240
Am I going to move toward that dream and make that happen?

00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:07.119
And how do I know?

00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:12.559
You've done that in mentoring other black men, you've done that in your businesses as well.

00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:14.640
How have you encouraged?

00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:19.440
How have you developed the leaders inside of your businesses and been able to scale?

00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:21.519
I mean, to run five businesses where you've been.

00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:22.720
What are some of those skills?

00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.240
So I didn't have these skills when I first started.

00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:27.920
So I get out of prison.

00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:31.759
Only thing I could get was a job part-time in a warehouse.

00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:37.680
Remember, I hadn't worked like legitimately for like 20 years and got fired from that job.

00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:39.279
They fired all the ex-felons.

00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.039
So I lost that one.

00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:49.119
And I was fortunate enough to return to Anchorage, Alaska, and got a white-collar job, food and beverage supervisor for the convention center.

00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:53.119
And now I have a large team of 20, 30.

00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:59.759
And again, I had to learn some skill sets that I did not have, but I'm a quick learner.

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:05.359
The first thing I had to learn was, and I didn't know this, not everybody thinks like I think.

00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:05.839
Okay.

00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:10.640
And I'm what they call a, you know, a concrete sequential.

00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:12.480
I'm a real bullet point person.

00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:14.400
I'm a task-oriented person.

00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:19.920
I'm there's nothing artsy or emotional about my quote unquote business.

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:20.160
Okay.

00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:22.559
But I thought everybody thought like I did.

00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:25.119
And I didn't know people didn't think like that.

00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:28.160
But this doesn't mean that my way is right and yours is wrong.

00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:30.079
We can still get to the desired result.

00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:30.400
Okay.

00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:32.480
We can still solve for the problem.

00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.039
It's just like you're going to go a different way to do it.

00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:39.680
I'll do, you know, long arithmetic or you know, long division, you'll do short division.

00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:41.279
We still get to the same answer.

00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:41.839
Okay.

00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.119
So that was literally one of the first things I had to learn.

00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:52.160
The second thing I had to learn is that I had to treat people and understand that people are human.

00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:57.920
There wasn't a lot of grace when I first became a people and understand that people are human.

00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:03.599
There wasn't a lot of grace when I first became a people and understand that people are human.

00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.440
There wasn't a lot of grace leader.

00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:05.680
Okay.

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:07.279
Wasn't a lot of grace.

00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:12.640
And because that's somewhat not the way I worked, but again, it's not about me.

00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:16.640
It's about my staff members, it's about my team leads.

00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:18.319
It's about my contractors.

00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:24.400
And then probably the third thing that I had to learn, the third lesson, and this is in business.

00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.160
I mean, I have so many things I could talk about about business itself.

00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:32.079
But in business with people, because in the end, it's always about the people.

00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:44.960
It's going to be your largest item on your on your loss, your profit and loss, your PL, your expenses is almost always going to be, it's not cost of goods sold, it's going to be employees and people.

00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:54.640
But the other thing that I had to learn is that I, and this is something I learned to do, is I wanted to grow them.

00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:56.480
I wanted them, I wanted to make them.

00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:58.240
Maybe I took that from the mentorship.

00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:01.200
I wanted to make them what's your dream?

00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.240
I didn't really sit down and say that with them because I'm not mentoring.

00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.880
But where do you want to go in this field?

00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:08.000
This isn't important.

00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:08.799
Let me just say that.

00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.759
I come from the school, you're not going to be with me forever.

00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:12.559
Period.

00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:16.400
But what can I do to help you grow in your skill set?

00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:25.759
Accounting, marketing, uh fundraising, sales, whatever your skill set that you choose, what can what conferences can I send you to?

00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.400
What coaches can I hire for you?

00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:36.799
What can I do to make because in the end, what I want is for you to do whatever responsibilities you have to your loved ones or to self.

00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:38.319
And that's truly the way I think.

00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:48.240
And so that grace, space, learning, you know, those it just those are just some I could speak on this one for a while, but hopefully those three are Ken.

00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:49.440
I love those as three principles.

00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:58.720
And as you said, whether it's business success in the terms of profitability or impact and those types of things, those three things are people related for you.

00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:00.960
I mean, not everyone thinks like you, right?

00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.160
So giving them the space to think, as you said, grace.

00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:05.279
And you mentioned this.

00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:10.319
I mean, I often talk about that a kind leader will have truth and grace.

00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:15.599
And someone who delivers truth, I mean, it can be done, but they often will come across as a bully, bully.

00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.559
But some or that are only delivering with grace and no truth.

00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:19.359
Then you're too soft.

00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:20.000
Go ahead, Ken.

00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:20.319
Yeah.

00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:21.920
I have one more I have to do.

00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:22.720
Yeah, absolutely.

00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:25.519
Oh, because I loved it because I was given that.

00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:27.759
You have space to fail.

00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:30.799
You have space to fail.

00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:40.480
I made a mistake early on when I went back into like the corporate, and uh my executive director, I was working for a nonprofit, called me in and said, This is what has happened, dot, dot, dot.

00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:41.519
But keep trying.

00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.519
You've done 10 great things, and you got this one that did not work out.

00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:51.359
Cost us a couple dollars, but you brought in 50 times more, five times more.

00:24:51.519 --> 00:25:02.960
And I learned a lesson there because people who are afraid to fail because of the repercussions or the feedback they think they may get, they're also afraid to do risk.

00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:07.279
And many times we have to do risk to grow or to scale the business.

00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:09.039
We have to.

00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:12.960
So, all the people who work with me know, hey, if you make a mistake, just let me know.

00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:14.640
Let's fix it, let's move on.

00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:16.000
What can we learn from it?

00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:16.960
And let's move on.

00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:18.319
Yeah, space to fail, love it.

00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.279
And again, it's gonna fall right in the midst of that grace box as well.

00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:24.640
If you're just delivering all truth and no grace, they're not gonna take a risk.

00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.599
They're not gonna grow, you're not gonna be able to scale your business.

00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:33.680
Four phenomenal principles uh that would help many leaders scale their business.

00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.920
Ken, I I can't believe how fast our time has gone.

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.960