Sept. 16, 2025

Episode 184: Leadership Mistakes: Learn from My Past Failures

My Favorite Mistake #152: John Gallagher on Leadership Mistakes, Business Growth & Lessons Learned from Failure

Episode Guest: John Gallagher, Executive Coach, Mentor, Consultant, Founder & CEO of Growing Champions, LLC, and Host of 'The Uncommon Leader' Podcast.

In this insightful episode from the 'My Favorite Mistake' podcast, host Mark Graban welcomes John Gallagher for a candid discussion about the pivotal role mistakes play in #Business and #Leadership #Growth. Recorded three years ago, this timeless conversation delves into John's 'favorite mistake' – a significant venture into the real estate business where he encountered unexpected challenges, particularly in trying to change established processes (and navigate family dynamics with his mother-in-law!).

John shares powerful #LessonsLearned about adaptability, the importance of focusing on strengths, and the surprising applications of #Lean principles beyond manufacturing. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on:

➡️ Embracing Failure: How #Mistakes and #Setbacks are not just inevitable, but essential catalysts for #PersonalGrowth and #ProfessionalDevelopment.

➡️ Humility in Leadership: The critical importance of being able to admit when you're wrong and fostering a culture where vulnerability is seen as a strength.

➡️ Process Improvement: Why having a robust process, even when 'every situation is unique,' can lead to greater success.

➡️ Creating Safe Environments: Building teams and organizations where open dialogue about #Mistakes is encouraged, leading to innovation and resilience.

➡️ The Uncommon Leader: Insights into common leadership pitfalls and the strengths that set truly #UncommonLeaders apart.

John also touches on his own podcast, 'The Uncommon Leader,' and his previous guest appearances on Mark Graban's 'Lean Blog Interviews.' This episode is a must-listen for executives, entrepreneurs, coaches, and anyone looking to transform their challenges into powerful learning opportunities.

Listen to the episode on other platforms:

👉https://youtu.be/c3Bq8i3lDrk

Guest: John Gallagher, Founder & CEO of Growing Champions, LLC, Host of 'The Uncommon Leader' Podcast.

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachjohngallagher/

🔗 https://www.youtube.com/@coachjohngallagher

🔗 https://coachjohngallagher.com/freecall/

Host: Mark Graban, Host of 'My Favorite Mistake' Podcast.

🔗https://www.linkedin.com/in/mgraban/

🔗 https://www.leanblog.org/

🔗 https://www.markgraban.com/podcasts/

#ExecutiveCoaching #PodcastInterview #BusinessStrategy #LeadershipDevelopment #MarkGraban #JohnGallagher #RealEstateLessons #FailureIsAnOption #GrowthMindset

Thanks for listening in to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Please take just a minute to share this podcast with that someone you know that you thought of when you heard this episode. One of the most valuable things you can do is to rate the podcast and leave a review. You can do that on Apple podcasts, or rate the podcast on Spotify or any other platform you listen.

Did you know that many of the things that I discuss on the Uncommon Leader Podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations ? If you would be interested in having me discuss 1:1 or group coaching with you, or know someone who is looking to move from Underperforming to Uncommon in their business or life, I would love to chat with you. Click this link to set up a FREE CALL to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team)

Until next time, Go and Grow Champions!!

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00:00 - Favorite Mistake: Trying to Change Others

06:02 - Introduction to John Gallagher

09:38 - Real Estate and Lean Methodology

15:15 - Process vs Personalization Balance

20:57 - Leadership Without Authority

24:32 - Closing Thoughts and Podcast Promotion

WEBVTT

00:00:00.059 --> 00:00:09.848
The mistake for me ultimately if you even bring it up to a higher theme was going into a leadership role and thinking that I could change someone else, I could change their heart, I could change their mind.

00:00:09.848 --> 00:00:31.783
It just wasn't something that I could do, but it was something that we fought our way through for a few years, because the only people who can really choose to change and change their behaviors are those individuals Having the ego to say, well, you should do things the way I do things, and again, whether that happened almost 20 years ago.

00:00:31.783 --> 00:00:34.515
It has really informed who I am as a leader today, as a consultant in business, that I've done as a coach and coaching others.

00:00:34.515 --> 00:00:44.728
I believe that many people will appreciate and will honor when you can be in front of them and let them know that I made a mistake and I won't do that again.

00:00:44.728 --> 00:00:45.511
But I learned from it.

00:00:45.511 --> 00:00:51.865
And, to a certain extent, when you apologize and you ask for forgiveness in that space, that's the uncommon.

00:01:02.780 --> 00:01:05.206
Well, hi and welcome to my Favorite Mistake.

00:01:05.206 --> 00:01:05.968
I'm Mark Rabin.

00:01:05.968 --> 00:01:08.212
Our guest today is John Gallagher.

00:01:08.212 --> 00:01:12.106
He is the founder and CEO of his Rowing Champions LLC.

00:01:12.106 --> 00:01:14.251
He's a coach and a mentor.

00:01:14.251 --> 00:01:30.463
He's worked for a consulting firm for a decade, after being an operations manager and a division president for two different companies, and John is also the host of a podcast called the Uncommon Leader, so I encourage you to check that out wherever you're listening to this podcast.

00:01:30.463 --> 00:01:33.251
So, john, thanks for being here as a guest today.

00:01:33.251 --> 00:01:34.100
How are you, mark?

00:01:34.542 --> 00:01:35.183
I'm doing well.

00:01:35.183 --> 00:01:35.885
Thanks very much.

00:01:35.885 --> 00:01:37.450
I'm looking forward to spending the time with you.

00:01:37.450 --> 00:01:40.409
I've been listening on a few of the past episodes, so this should be fun.

00:01:41.242 --> 00:01:49.825
And you're like me as a podcast host and I don't sometimes I put up a Post-it note to remind myself I'm the guest, like, so I don't make the mistake of.

00:01:50.685 --> 00:02:07.778
Yeah, I mean, I often think about that, just as it is a little different although you have many more interviews from that side of the microphone than I do and your experience I've been listening in to learn a lot from you, so I don't have quite as many bad habits to get rid of sitting on this side of being the guest.

00:02:08.480 --> 00:02:10.246
I'm curious what my bad habits are.

00:02:11.028 --> 00:02:11.691
We all have them.

00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:29.706
We all yes, we all do, and I try to not repeat those mistakes over and over again, like, for example and I'll try not to do this to you today, john Sometimes I will accidentally combine two or three questions into one, when maybe I should just parcel them out one at a time, so you can coach me on that.

00:02:29.706 --> 00:02:30.830
We'll see how it goes.

00:02:30.830 --> 00:02:35.531
So, john, there's all kinds of things we can talk about today, but we like to dive right in.

00:02:35.531 --> 00:02:40.580
Looking back at the different things that you've done, what would you say is your favorite mistake?

00:02:40.740 --> 00:02:41.461
My favorite mistake.

00:02:41.461 --> 00:02:45.693
I've had a great time trying to think through this Favorite mistake, my favorite mistake.

00:02:45.693 --> 00:02:58.112
I've had a great time trying to think through this and while I know I have too many probably to choose from, there is one that kind of comes to the top that I've actually used in stories before and oddly enough, mark, I had a Facebook post pop up from 11 years ago when I wrote something very similar.

00:02:58.112 --> 00:03:01.819
So my favorite mistake has kind of hung along as I went through.

00:03:01.819 --> 00:03:27.628
But as you touched a little bit on my career, I had been in operations where I ran a small fuel transfer company fuel transfer pump company in Fort Wayne, indiana for about five years and then really made a family decision to move back to Roanoke, virginia, where my wife's family was from, and at the time it was an opportunity that for me, I was in an organization that was very successful from a manufacturing standpoint.

00:03:27.628 --> 00:03:37.264
Our results were good and continuing to grow, and it was something that I was pretty comfortable from a business and career standpoint with the work that I was in.

00:03:37.264 --> 00:03:40.950
But it was clearly a family decision that we made.

00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:47.304
So, while leaving a successful manufacturing job as a division president could be seen as a favorite mistake.

00:03:47.304 --> 00:04:01.145
That actually wasn't the one that I would go forward and talk to, but what I ended up doing was coming back and deciding that I could do some of the skill set that I had in process improvement continuous improvement and implement that from manufacturing into real estate sales.

00:04:01.145 --> 00:04:20.228
And my mother-in-law had been in real estate sales in Roanoke, virginia, for about 30 years and I had this great idea of teaming up with her to take some of the continuous improvement, lean methodologies, if you will, into real estate sales and talk with her about that, and she seemed to be up for it.

00:04:20.228 --> 00:04:27.766
So we teamed up and others might say my favorite mistake would be going into business with my mother-in-law, but that wasn't it as well.

00:04:28.783 --> 00:04:29.687
That could be risky.

00:04:29.687 --> 00:04:31.846
That could have been, that could definitely be risky.

00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:36.310
Many of the cliches are never do business with family members and things like that.

00:04:36.420 --> 00:04:44.713
But the fact is, even almost 20 years later, we're still on talking terms and doing really well Not in business together anymore.

00:04:44.774 --> 00:04:48.901
We're still on talking terms and doing really well Not in business together anymore.

00:04:48.901 --> 00:05:00.512
But really the favorite mistake part of that as I went into business with her was me having the ego of thinking I could change someone to make them kind of follow the management system I had learned to adopt to over the last 15 years.

00:05:00.512 --> 00:05:21.161
That was a continuous improvement methodology and ultimately what that led to for me in trying to change my mother-in-law's behaviors was frustration for me often and really frustration for her for me asking her to really behave or perform from a business standpoint in areas where it just wasn't her strength.

00:05:21.161 --> 00:05:29.795
So the mistake for me ultimately if you even bring it up to a higher theme was going into a leadership role and thinking that I could change someone else.

00:05:29.795 --> 00:05:32.165
I could change their heart, I could change their mind.

00:05:32.165 --> 00:05:38.764
It just wasn't something that I could do, but it was something that we fought our way through for a few years and actually generated some success.

00:05:38.764 --> 00:05:41.791
But it took me a couple of years to learn that in the journey as well.

00:05:41.872 --> 00:05:46.435
Well, I'm glad, john, that you could resolve to the point where you're on speaking terms.

00:05:46.514 --> 00:05:49.797
That is important, that is important, especially with family, because you know you get as you say.

00:05:49.797 --> 00:05:52.365
You can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family, that's for sure.

00:05:52.365 --> 00:05:55.459
So yeah, we are still family and we're still in good spirits.

00:05:55.459 --> 00:05:56.740
Absolutely Well, good.

00:05:57.101 --> 00:06:21.810
And it seems like you know that general advice whether you know different flavors of it of don't go into business with a relative, don't go into business with a good friend, don't loan money to a family member, you know, it seems like you know the risk is, if something goes wrong, now you really screw up this relationship and maybe a lot of people go into it thinking like, well, yeah, they say don't do this, but we're going to be successful, we'll be different.

00:06:21.810 --> 00:06:22.713
We'll be different.

00:06:22.713 --> 00:06:27.291
I guess there are always exceptions to the rule, but sometimes the quote unquote rule is there for a reason?

00:06:27.432 --> 00:06:42.726
Well, absolutely, and again I don't even know that it was as much the family as the mistake, as it was again me having the ego to say, well, you should do things the way I do things, and coming forward with that and how it took me a little while to learn and really adapt and adopt to that.

00:06:42.766 --> 00:07:07.173
And again, whether that happened 50, almost 20 years ago, it has really informed who I am as a as a leader today, as a consultant in business, that I've done as a coach and coaching others, because the only people who can really choose to change and change their behaviors are those individuals and all I can really do is model and and ultimately see what others will see in the work that I do, that they'll want to do that as well.

00:07:07.721 --> 00:07:31.144
But I had to learn to adjust to that and there were probably things that slowed us down as a result of that favorite mistake, especially again asking her or asking any individual to work in an area that might be outside of their strength zone, sort of outside, and it can be in a learning zone from a comfort zone standpoint, but ultimately in organizations it takes a lot of different aptitudes in terms of the business to make it successful.

00:07:31.144 --> 00:07:41.843
And if you have too many people that are just like you, that go through that and think just like you, you're probably going to limit where the lid on your organization is going to be set, that you won't exceed the goals that you really could exceed.

00:07:42.024 --> 00:07:47.411
So I mean I would like to dig a little bit into the story of some follow-up questions.

00:07:47.411 --> 00:08:09.846
But first off, if you could, john, you know regular listeners will know because of my professional background, I don't know, maybe one of every 10 episodes I'm talking to somebody where this methodology comes up, this term lean, when we're talking about this style of improvement or this management system, but what would be your elevator speech version of all right well?

00:08:09.846 --> 00:08:12.509
So, john, what is this lean approach?

00:08:13.168 --> 00:08:31.225
Well, thanks for asking that, Marcus, because, as I think about lean and how I have learned it, if you will, in manufacturing and then deployed it in manufacturing as a leader at that time for me and it still is today in terms of my elevator speech and consulting or coaching as well but that it was the passionate pursuit of the elimination of waste.

00:08:31.767 --> 00:08:47.014
And you do that through ultimately looking at the processes that you have, breaking them down into value-added and non-value-added tasks, into those tasks that you really don't need to be doing all the time, but which are those that you need to repeat on a regular basis and make happen.

00:08:47.120 --> 00:09:26.605
So, as I saw it in a real estate setting again looking at where some of the strengths of my team member was going to be I thought there was an opportunity to put systems in place and processes in place that would allow us to scale that business even further, capitalize on the relationship building that my mother-in-law, nancy, had already done, but also to systematize that, put it into processes, put it into standard work so that when we had new listings, we had the same 17 steps for marketing a listing that went through, or if there was a buyer that we had, and after the contract, what are the 23 steps and what order they have to be done to get that contract closed on time.

00:09:26.705 --> 00:09:33.447
So it was those processes that she may not have had that would have allowed the business to be able to be scaled more.

00:09:33.447 --> 00:09:43.128
And then, secondly, is on the other end or on the very end of that, is the visual management of that, the scorecard, the keeping score and setting goals for the organization.

00:09:43.128 --> 00:09:52.586
And I saw both of those really as an opportunity to succeed in that real estate space where I saw that there was a gap in many of those individuals who were in that business.

00:09:52.807 --> 00:10:01.596
And so the opportunity and this is one of the challenges of being a coach or a consultant or whatever term you're using you can see the opportunity for things to be better.

00:10:01.596 --> 00:10:03.750
You can see the gap in performance.

00:10:03.750 --> 00:10:08.948
You can see how a different way of doing things could help close that gap in performance.

00:10:08.948 --> 00:10:13.687
But then often the person you're trying to coach might not see the gap.

00:10:13.687 --> 00:10:19.318
They might think their performance is fine and that might be true Performance is fine.

00:10:19.318 --> 00:10:26.933
Maybe they don't have the same desire to try to push it to be better, like what were some of the change dynamics there?

00:10:26.933 --> 00:10:30.764
You mentioned earlier that maybe it was just some of the new methods were uncomfortable.

00:10:30.764 --> 00:10:39.908
But was there, I wonder, a more fundamental issue of where your mother-in-law thought well, you know, business is fine, I wanted John to help me out, not to reinvent me, or something like that?

00:10:40.109 --> 00:10:44.552
No, I think you almost answered the question for me in some of the points that you made.

00:10:44.552 --> 00:10:46.534
I'll just use a specific example.

00:10:46.534 --> 00:10:51.100
No, no, no, I mean I think it's just you hit the nail on the head with regards to some of those.

00:10:51.100 --> 00:11:12.389
But a different one or a specific example I would use and again, that relates to any business, not just real estate, or relates to any coaching relationship, not just with your mother-in-law but would be that I set up visual management inside of the office with, ultimately, the goals for the month, and I knew we needed a certain number of closings per month to be successful, which is the outcome metric.

00:11:12.389 --> 00:11:21.825
But I also knew that to do that we needed a number of touches or a number of contacts that we could have in there to get leads into the funnel, to make a difference there.

00:11:21.845 --> 00:11:33.328
And I started to list those contacts up on the wall on sticky notes and had graphs for our performance in terms of the monthly numbers that we would close in both transactions, as well as revenue that would come in.

00:11:33.328 --> 00:11:41.436
And it just wasn't something that she was interested in, that many people aren't interested in seeing some of the visual management that occurs.

00:11:41.436 --> 00:11:58.948
And again, I think I realized that it took a while, after a while, but it was something that I was able to capitalize on and then learn that how do I continue to capitalize on her strengths, which was the relationship building in the industry as a salesperson and bringing those leads into the system.

00:11:58.948 --> 00:12:08.212
She wasn't necessarily as interested in taking those leads all the way through, but you need all of those different business types inside of your business to make things happen.

00:12:08.212 --> 00:12:19.874
So it was recognizing that that ultimately led to us having more success and ultimately being recognized as one of the top realtor teams in Roanoke in our third year in business, which was really good.

00:12:20.346 --> 00:12:21.672
That's a really interesting point.

00:12:21.672 --> 00:12:27.217
You talk about discovering the opportunity to focus on strengths instead of problems.

00:12:27.217 --> 00:12:38.067
I think, from our professional background as you said earlier you used the word waste we're focused on the problem, the waste, the defect and some people.

00:12:38.067 --> 00:12:49.149
Depending on how I don't know their experiences or how their brains work sometimes people might say, well, you're being too negative by pointing out these problems, and I think you raised a good point.

00:12:49.149 --> 00:12:54.388
There's room for both perspectives, I think in a successful company.

00:12:54.649 --> 00:12:55.309
Absolutely.

00:12:55.309 --> 00:13:00.870
One of the authors that I read a good deal about and this is a leadership author is John Maxwell.

00:13:00.870 --> 00:13:02.033
John Maxwell and common leaders.

00:13:02.033 --> 00:13:03.355
Hope you're enjoying the episode.

00:13:03.355 --> 00:13:03.817
So far.

00:13:04.298 --> 00:13:07.577
I believe in doing business with people you like and trust, and not just a company name.

00:13:07.577 --> 00:13:11.894
That's why a strong personal brand is essential, whether you're an entrepreneur or a leader within a company.

00:13:11.894 --> 00:13:19.011
Brand Builders Group, the folks who have been helping me refine my own personal brand are offering a free consultation call with one of their expert brand strategists.

00:13:19.011 --> 00:13:26.909
They'll help you identify your uniqueness, craft a compelling story and develop a step-by-step plan to elevate your impact.

00:13:26.909 --> 00:13:35.385
So head on over to coachjohngallaghercom slash BBG, as in Brand Builders Group, to schedule your free call and take the first step toward building a personal brand that gets you noticed for all the right reasons.

00:13:35.385 --> 00:13:38.769
That's coachjohngallaghercom slash BBG.

00:13:38.769 --> 00:13:40.450
Now let's get back to the episode, the CDs.

00:13:40.470 --> 00:13:43.192
I remember listening to his before podcasting was really cool.

00:13:43.192 --> 00:13:53.081
He had the CD club and then tape club before that, but he talked about the four aptitudes of a leader and that each organization, each team, needed all four aptitudes.

00:13:53.081 --> 00:13:57.494
He talked about strategic as an aptitude.

00:13:57.494 --> 00:13:58.865
He talked about operational as an aptitude.

00:13:58.865 --> 00:14:02.706
He talked about the vision casting or directing in the organization as well.

00:14:02.706 --> 00:14:06.998
And then that fourth aptitude being the team building type aptitude as well.

00:14:06.998 --> 00:14:16.254
And so again I went in there very much with an operational mindset that was going to fix this visual management, new processes and things like that going forward.

00:14:16.254 --> 00:14:27.594
But the aptitude that I missed was that team building, that relationship building my team member capitalized on and did really well with, and I got myself too focused on the operational side early on in that journey.

00:14:28.086 --> 00:14:36.211
And it seems like there is another opportunity for balance is looking at process versus personalization of service.

00:14:36.325 --> 00:14:55.256
So I've run across this in healthcare, as I'm sure you have, john where, like what you were describing for real estate, you could look at a surgical procedure and say, well, here are the 23 things that have to happen in advance, in this sequence, to help ensure that there are no mix-ups or errors, and things that should happen after the surgery.

00:14:55.256 --> 00:15:00.136
But you would get pushback of somebody saying, well, every patient is unique.

00:15:00.136 --> 00:15:04.576
Well, to an extent that's not true, but in some ways it is.

00:15:04.576 --> 00:15:12.148
And I think when a lot of times people in healthcare hear about process or standardization, I hear pushback, boy.

00:15:12.148 --> 00:15:26.844
There are a lot of people in the software world that don't like the word process, but I think they fear like that'll be taken to an extreme in a way that would prevent them from responding appropriately to the needs of a particular patient patient.

00:15:26.844 --> 00:15:33.510
I would expect there's almost a similar dynamic, maybe in real estate, where someone would say look, every client is unique, every home sale is unique.

00:15:33.510 --> 00:15:37.644
How did you work out that balance between process and personalization?

00:15:37.825 --> 00:15:43.186
No, I think you make a phenomenal point, and certainly in healthcare it is there right.

00:15:43.186 --> 00:15:50.807
I mean, you have an industry with highly trained and educated individuals and you go in there and ask them to standardize some of those things.

00:15:50.807 --> 00:15:53.192
It becomes hard to convince others.

00:15:53.192 --> 00:15:59.712
Look, you have someone that's been in real estate for 30 years and ask them to go in and standardize some of the things that they've done.

00:15:59.712 --> 00:16:04.203
It's going to be hard to get them to really buy into that as well.

00:16:04.203 --> 00:16:36.504
Go forward the relationship component of consulting or coaching, regardless of the industry, is that, rather than trying to drive that vision forward really fast with regards to implementing new processes or implementing standardization, as you talked about, but rather getting those people to buy into you first whether it's the customer or whether it's a team member that they will buy into you as a person, then they'll learn to trust you more and you have a better chance of making that influence again and modeling to get them to change.

00:16:36.644 --> 00:16:44.831
And I do agree that people would say in real estate there are buyers that are different across the industry and there are different segments.

00:16:44.831 --> 00:16:45.591
No doubt about it.

00:16:45.591 --> 00:17:01.092
Just like there are different elements or specialties in healthcare, there are different types of buyers in real estate as well, and you have to be aware of those as an individual that works in that business and really change or update your standard to support the relationship building.

00:17:01.092 --> 00:17:11.709
But it doesn't mean that each time you sell a house there still has to be a termite inspection, there still has to be a home inspection, there still has to be a disclosure statement, there still has to be a loan application.

00:17:11.769 --> 00:17:25.351
Generally, all those things need to be done so that you have the time to be the empathetic doctor you need to be, or the empathetic real estate agent or the empathetic leader you need to be in organization Leader standard work.

00:17:25.351 --> 00:17:26.642
I know you've written about it before.

00:17:26.642 --> 00:17:32.173
What are the things that leaders need to do on a daily and weekly and monthly basis to be successful?

00:17:32.173 --> 00:17:43.381
And anytime you talk about having them document their daily or weekly standard work, there's a sense that they feel many leaders will feel you're trying to take away my creativity when you do that, and it's absolutely not.

00:17:43.381 --> 00:17:52.385
I mean, as we go forward, it really is about standardizing the things that can be standardized so that you can be creative when you need to be creative, absolutely, yeah.

00:17:52.767 --> 00:17:55.979
Yeah, and to what level do we standardize?

00:17:55.979 --> 00:17:57.785
I'm just thinking back to a few years ago.

00:17:57.785 --> 00:18:03.101
My wife and I bought a condo and in Florida we moved there for her job.

00:18:03.101 --> 00:18:05.266
The realtor was great.

00:18:05.266 --> 00:18:07.211
This was probably a standard practice for him.

00:18:07.211 --> 00:18:11.855
After we closed and we got to our place and we opened the refrigerator, there was a surprise.

00:18:11.855 --> 00:18:23.432
There was a bottle of champagne, a pretty nice bottle of champagne, in the refrigerator and we thought that was a really nice touch and we really we, we, we happily consumed it.

00:18:23.432 --> 00:18:25.617
That was a good fit for us.

00:18:25.617 --> 00:18:30.471
But I could see where, if, if his thing was, I always give my homebuyers a bottle of champagne.

00:18:30.471 --> 00:18:36.744
There are going to be some homebuyers, for whatever reason, don't drink and wouldn't necessarily appreciate the gesture.

00:18:36.744 --> 00:18:44.088
So I'd be curious, if I don't remember, if he learned about enough about us to understand if that would be a nice gesture, right?

00:18:44.088 --> 00:18:45.291
So does he standardize on?

00:18:45.291 --> 00:18:51.673
I always give a bottle of champagne or I always leave some nice surprise as a home warming gift.

00:18:51.673 --> 00:18:55.351
You can standardize that a couple different ways, right?

00:18:55.500 --> 00:19:13.434
Sure, but to your point, how are you standardizing the relationship building component to determine if they even drink, right In terms of they going forward with that, so that they, when you give them a bottle of alcohol for a gift, they don't actually get somewhat offended because you didn't know that they didn't drink?

00:19:13.434 --> 00:19:21.679
So it's, I mean, it can be a risk, no doubt about it, but ultimately that's where some of the after gap analysis comes into play as well.

00:19:21.679 --> 00:19:27.250
Right, you learn through some of the mistakes, unfortunately, in healthcare, you learn through making mistakes.

00:19:27.250 --> 00:19:31.010
You hope that they're not mistakes that result in death, but they do.

00:19:31.010 --> 00:19:50.517
And what is your reflection process, what is your continuous improvement process that allows you to go back and update your standard, to put a question like that in place that says I normally give a gift at the end, just wanted to see if a gift of alcohol would be something that would be something you would appreciate.

00:19:50.517 --> 00:19:51.500
But you would appreciate, but you're right.

00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:58.097
I mean, it's also that continuous improvement loop of learning that you must do to continuously update that standard.

00:19:58.539 --> 00:20:15.633
Yeah, I like that point you made about having some steps and being proactive and understanding enough about the person who's buying the home so that they could learn proactively, because, let's say, they gave the bottle of champagne to somebody and they were upset on some level, but they didn't say anything.

00:20:15.633 --> 00:20:17.005
You don't have that feedback.

00:20:17.005 --> 00:20:17.465
That's right.

00:20:17.465 --> 00:20:22.108
You don't have the feedback loop, and so I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned.

00:20:22.108 --> 00:20:25.733
I really like the way you put that about standardizing some of the relationship building.

00:20:25.854 --> 00:20:38.931
Well, I think at the end, look that relationship building is so important on the front end, the relationship building, whether it's the, again, the questions that you ask to learn what the real problem is or, in the case of real estate, what their real want is.

00:20:38.931 --> 00:21:07.040
And again, my, my mother-in-law had a phenomenal way of getting someone, getting a buyer in a car, driving them around for an hour, having them tell her what they wanted at the start, and by the end of that conversation she actually had really nailed down exactly what they did want, based on listening to them, based on asking them questions, where they lived, what age their kids were, what sports they were engaged in, all those different things that would allow her to get it ready.

00:21:07.040 --> 00:21:08.484
Was it standard for her?

00:21:08.484 --> 00:21:13.750
No, would I have tried to get it where she had a sticky note on the front of her windshield to get that done?

00:21:13.750 --> 00:21:17.348
I might have if I would not have learned properly and said no, she just knows how to do it.

00:21:17.348 --> 00:21:18.821
Let her get that part done.

00:21:18.942 --> 00:21:27.150
But if she was bringing a young, inexperienced realtor or agent into the business, then something like that might have been useful as a training guide.

00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:31.981
Absolutely, absolutely.

00:21:31.981 --> 00:21:43.886
A couple of things that I keep going back to as I talk and listen through, and even in healthcare, it was Atul Gawande's checklist manifesto and even the powerful TEDx video that he's done with regards to standardization, how he was a surgeon.

00:21:43.886 --> 00:21:51.540
The other thing he did you touched on this is he brought someone else in to observe him, what he was doing, to learn and improve.

00:21:51.540 --> 00:21:59.934
So it's not only about how we do things in a standard way, but you said that it's the feedback that we get as well what did we do well and what could we do better?

00:21:59.934 --> 00:22:01.602
To continuously improve.

00:22:01.602 --> 00:22:14.349
There's the spirit of lean, if you will, again, of continuous improvement and the humility of a leader like Atul Gawande specialist surgeon that he was that was always looking to get better at what he did and he believed in checklists.

00:22:14.779 --> 00:22:15.863
So I think yes.

00:22:15.863 --> 00:22:26.342
Well, so I think you know my attempt at summarizing some of what you've said here is that standardized doesn't mean inflexible and standardized doesn't mean permanent, absolutely.

00:22:26.402 --> 00:22:29.406
Yeah, standard work is which is standardized is the best way.

00:22:29.406 --> 00:22:30.469
We know how to do it today.

00:22:30.469 --> 00:22:32.432
That's not the best way, necessarily.

00:22:32.432 --> 00:22:33.494
We know how to do it tomorrow.

00:22:33.494 --> 00:22:34.241
You're exactly right.

00:22:34.363 --> 00:22:38.547
So I want to I mean, before we talk about your podcast and some of the leadership coaching that you do, John.

00:22:38.547 --> 00:22:41.199
One other question, looking back for reflection.

00:22:41.199 --> 00:22:45.288
You know you talk about being a consultant, a coach, a son-in-law.

00:22:45.288 --> 00:22:51.743
You're in a position of having to influence or convince, or you know like you're in a position of leading without authority.

00:22:51.743 --> 00:23:00.063
When you were a company division president, I mean, were there times where, whether you were intending to or not, you could sort of get away with telling people what to do.

00:23:00.063 --> 00:23:08.108
And if you were put back into a role like that today, would you operate differently based on what you've learned being a coach and consultant?

00:23:08.169 --> 00:23:13.605
Well, I think there's no doubt if I were put back into an operations role today I would behave differently.

00:23:13.605 --> 00:23:32.150
Hopefully I've grown in that years, again learning from some of these quote favorite mistakes as I've gone through and even through learning as a consultant and observing other leaders through this journey other chief executives and C-suite members, as well as frontline leaders who have challenges in making continuous improvement that I've made improvements there.

00:23:32.150 --> 00:23:45.253
Going back to the first part of your question really about, was there sort of a belief, if you will, that I could tell others what to do with regards to positional leadership, probably especially early on in my leadership journey.

00:23:45.253 --> 00:23:56.934
I don't know that I could recall a specific time as I go through that, but I do know absolutely of times where people would give me feedback if I was doing that and how I could make continuous improvement.

00:23:56.934 --> 00:24:09.834
You know we go through different levels of leadership Another John Maxwell book the five levels of leadership and just because we're given a position doesn't necessarily give us the influence we need to take someone where they wouldn't go on their own.

00:24:09.834 --> 00:24:15.250
As a great leader, you get to level five leadership in terms of making a difference and leaving a legacy.

00:24:15.250 --> 00:24:17.286
By going through those phases of the journey.

00:24:17.286 --> 00:24:32.842
You start off as the boss, if you will, but you have to build relationships, you have to build competence, you have to build decision-making capabilities that allow you to earn your way up on those levels of leadership and, again, I think, through my continuous Uncommon Leaders.

00:24:32.903 --> 00:24:37.405
Thanks for listening to my conversation with Mark Graven on his great podcast my Favorite Mistake.

00:24:37.405 --> 00:24:44.400
If you enjoyed the conversation, I encourage you to share with someone else you know who needs to with Mark Graven on his great podcast my Favorite Mistake.

00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.891
Hear this message and go ahead and follow Mark and me on social media.

00:24:47.891 --> 00:25:02.347
We're sharing tips all the time for how you can grow your leadership and how you can focus that energy on continuous improvement on a daily basis, and certainly we get a chance to share some of our favorite mistakes with you on those platforms that you get a chance to learn from as well.

00:25:02.347 --> 00:25:05.904
Interesting hearing more conversations with great leaders like this.

00:25:05.904 --> 00:25:09.166
Check the show notes for a link to the Uncommon Leader podcast.

00:25:09.166 --> 00:25:14.732
I encourage you to subscribe so you'll get a notification in your email each week when a new episode comes out.

00:25:14.732 --> 00:25:17.403
Until next time, go and grow champions.