Choosing Faith Over Fear: A Hockey Enforcer's Fight for Purpose - Billy Huard

Speaker 1: 0:01

Hey Uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast, and I'm your host, john Gallagher. Today I've got another great guest, billy Heward, a former professional hockey enforcer in the NHL, turned inspirational speaker and author. Billy takes us on a journey of personal growth, resilience and faith as he shares his experiences from the hockey rink into the business world. His story emphasizes the importance of focusing on others, adopting positive daily routines and finding ways to refresh and re-energize. From his early dreams of becoming an NHL goalscorer to the challenges he faced as an enforcer, billy's journey is one of overcoming adversity and finding purpose. We dive into Billy's struggles with stress, anxiety and depression and how he ultimately turned to faith, lifestyle changes and holistic healing methods to transform his life. All of this great stuff is outlined in even more detail in his new book A Purpose Worth Fighting For. Finding Faith Over Fear. This episode and the book are going to be good ones. Let's get started. Billy Heward, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. It's great to have you on. How are you doing?

Speaker 2: 1:11

I'm doing awesome. It's great to be here. I'm looking forward to the podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Absolutely. I'm looking forward to the conversation today, and we are here to talk about your book, a Purpose Worth Fighting For, finding Faith Over Fear, as well as get a chance to know you a little bit better. The good thing about the timings of this podcast is that it's coming out, so it'll be out just a couple of days after we have this interview and we'll have it published and ready for folks to hear your story along with reading your story, so I know folks are going to enjoy the book. So, billy, the book is, as we said, finding Faith Over Fear and your Purpose in terms of the intent behind it. Why did you write this book and who did you write it for?

Speaker 2: 1:50

That's a great question. I actually started the book almost 20 years ago when I retired from the NHL, so I started out. It's ironic I started writing the book for me for all the wrong reasons and it kind of segwayed and transformed into a book for others, utilizing my story to help others, where in the beginning it was just all about me. So throughout my journey, both in hockey and the NHL and as a professional athlete and writing the book, my story changed considerably. So it's now to reach others and that's essentially just a vessel for that now.

Speaker 1: 2:32

Billy, think about that journey through the NHL and also kind of part of your life. When I hear the word NHL and Forcer and I know a little bit about hockey and things like that I don't necessarily correlate that with Finding your Purpose and Finding Faith Over Fear. So tell our listeners a little bit about the life of an NHL and Forcer and what you went through, and then again how that ultimately led you to this book.

Speaker 2: 3:03

Yeah, really. I mean, I grew up in Canada in a small town wanting to be a goal scorer and an NHL hockey player. Growing up as a boy in Canada, you always, you know everybody wants to play in the NHL and I wasn't any different. I had three older sisters. I was the youngest and my dad had his boy and my dad, you know he got me. They got me into hockey when I was around four or five and I had to overcome a lot throughout my journey and I just played hockey with all my friends. I went through a lot of step backs, growth spurts and things like that, but throughout that time I had my dream was becoming more real of being an NHL hockey player. However, it got to a certain point where I realized or was made very clear that the player I wanted to be, or dreamt to be, wasn't that role, actually wasn't the role I was going to serve in the NHL, and that's really what I struggled with the most. It was having to become an NHL enforcer, which I chose to be and which was part of the game back then. It wasn't the NHL's fault, it wasn't the you know there are there are several ex-NHO fighters that that enjoyed the role, I guess you know, but I certainly wasn't one of them. I was a really good hockey player. So, having said that, I dealt with a lot of the stress and anxiety that went with that role. And you know, just leading up to a fight, the fight, even after the fight, and when I retired from the sport, I had a lot of questions, a lot of animosity as to why I had you know, why did that have to be me? And things like that, and not only that. In doing so in the role, with the role, I had a lot. You know, what came with the role was a lot of anxiety and stress and depression and I dealt with that through, you know, alcohol and just things like that. Later, ptsd and you know came aboard, happened. It got pretty dark and dreary for quite some time in my life. So, but I mean the role in NHL was was that such that if, if, if the game, if your team was up a few goals, you'd be okay, but if the other team was up a few goals, you'd have to go change the momentum of the game. You were there to make sure your best players got all the room on the ice as possible and that was my role.

Speaker 1: 5:25

Billy, one that would truly be stressful and, as you said, probably not in the four or five year old's dream when he started out was to come up as an enforcer and won their stuff. And, as you said, you mentioned stress and anxiety. My guess is a lot of pain that goes along with that as well, either inflicting it on someone and you probably win some and you lose some kind of thing as you go forward that. But regardless of that, it's probably more about that stress and depression and how you handled that and clearly, in writing the book it's really about how you've overcome that and discovered what your purpose has been in finding faith over fear. Was there a moment, billy, that you had to make that choice afterward and said that's something that I whether it's not about not wanting to be the enforcer anywhere, you retired from professional hockey, but where it hit you, it said, I got to be different as a person going forward as well.

Speaker 2: 6:18

Yeah, there was a. I mean, there were some signs, for sure, and I knew I had to change. And then there was a couple of key moments that transformed me. One was I was really down and out. I had gone through a lot of pain Financially, I was going through some stress, marriage and everything else and just I was drinking, I was trying to, I was trying to. What got me through in the past wasn't going to get me through what I was currently going through. When I was a fighter, I could drink and have fun with the guys, but when your career's over and you're still looking to kind of drown your sorrows in the same unhealthy ways, it got to a point where I couldn't do it any longer. And so what happened really was I was, I was in my office, I have, I have an office, and then my wife had bought some books and put some books on the shelves in my office just kind of like what you have in the background, and a few books that she had picked up, and the one book was called the Evangelist by Billy Graham and it's really the life and story of Billy Graham and how he started his journey in evangelism and things like that, and I just picked it up, for whatever reason, on the shelf my wife at this point had been saying hey, let's go to church, let's kind of go. I got some friends, maybe we, maybe she. She sensed it, you know, she knew something, we needed help. And I read the Evangelist and it changed my life and that was the first time and I woke up. I mean, I got up and I went upstairs and I woke her up in the morning and said let's go to church. She's like what are you talking about? And she literally jumped out of bed in a way. We went and you know, I read about forgiveness, I read about, you know, everything that Billy Graham talks about, which is obviously in the Bible, and that I, you know forgiveness, change, faith and things like that and I wanted more of it. It was kind of like, you know, when you first become a Christian or you, you know, you kind of you just like you want to hear more sick, that living water, and that's kind of what happened. So we, we went to church that day. And then I had another. I had another awakening. Really, I had a. I was watching my son play hockey and I was in North Dakota and I had something happened. I had mercy on my foot which they didn't know what it was. I spent 10 days in ICU and it didn't look good and I kind of made a promise, that to God, that, hey, if I change my life, you know, I promise, I promise that I'll be, I'll follow you and I'll do everything I can, and you know. And then it started to hit me. Maybe being an NHL hockey player was my purpose, but it wasn't about what I thought it was. There was a bigger reason for this and that's what I thought well, okay, so a purpose worth fighting for and my book, you know, I kind of rediscovered my faith and purpose through my fear of fighting in the NHL, which is kind of ironic, you know, and that happens, I know, to a lot of people. It's, you know, it's kind of when you hit rock bottom and or you're close to it, then you're kind of more receptive to, you know, to a higher power or faith or things like that. That's what happened to me.

Speaker 1: 9:27

Love that story, billy Graham. He has impacted so many right and it but it. You know, ultimately it's God as you know, you mentioned living water. It's God that changes our hearts. But powerful story and I'm glad that you're able to overcome that as well. As you know, really talking about the story of you know alcohol and things like that that were driving you also, and being able to overcome that as you went on that journey it probably wasn't a one day switch Well over some of the battles you had to overcome as you went, as you went through with it.

Speaker 2: 10:00

Well, I always kind of had one foot in. I needed to get that second foot in. So when we had a settlement with the NHL on the concussion issues, that allowed us you know a lot of us enforcers and our guys that thought they had concussions to seek out. So I went to a neurologist through the NHL and I was diagnosed with PTSD and things like that. So that was one step. I took it right away because I'll tell you what happened, john. But I was, I had sold our company and I was thrilled and I went for dinner with my wife and my and the kids and I had a nervous breakdown at dinner for no reason. I've never had one before. I didn't even know what it was. I've heard about them but I've never experienced just breaking down and crying. It was embarrassing. I didn't. I had no idea what it was. It was like it just hit me, almost like a punch. I just like. I left the table. I came outside and my wife said okay, I'm like I don't know what just happened to me, I have no idea. So they got worse and worse and worse. So the timing was good because at the same time I was going to see that neurologist. That had happened. So I was able to. They were able to put me on. First of all, right away. He said alcohol is a depressant that needs to stop, and I was stopping anyway. So I was like, okay, there's a sign from God. And then, secondly, I had to make serious lifestyle changes, and I did. And that's when I started to. You know, I started to get more into the holistic healing and I started to do some research, because nobody, nobody, there's no book out there on hey, how do, how do you help fighters or guys with PT? I'm sure there's lots of medications and different things like that, or maybe you know there's places you can go, but there really wasn't anything for me at the time. So I just did my, I just did my due diligence and I discovered like a whim-hoff for cold tubs and breathing, and I read up on Laird Hamilton on different things like that. And one thing that I really enjoyed and you always ask this as a kid, one thing I enjoyed is the kid was getting into the wilderness and getting away, and I used to do that and it just put always put me in such a great place. And that's essentially what I did. I started, I bought a camper and I just started getting away. So when I felt that stress and anxiety my wife knew it I would tell her we started to journal all that and I would just go away and I would take my dog and I'd go paddle boarding. I would just get one with nature and it helped me so much. So I really, you know, at first it's hard because it's lifestyle changes. You're, you know, you're used to being the certain person or people, this persona and people. You know the tough guy, the existential hockey player. You know, entrepreneur, successful. To know I need to slow down, I need to really figure out what my true purpose is. It's not about me anymore and that's why another thing I had to do is be transparent and share, because you know, like we've, like we've learned about from Rory, you know was your better, your best, serving the person. You once were right and that is 100% true and that's that is my avatar and that's why I wrote the book, because I can only reach so many people, but the book really is an extension of me that can reach others who I couldn't otherwise reach through, just, you know, through conversation or contacts.

Speaker 1: 13:12

Now, milly, you touched on that we are most powerfully positioned to help that person that we used to be. Absolutely, you know, I can I can just kind of see it now, but the, you know, the part that I truly appreciate and love is that by your story, when you mentioned, you know that, almost going back to being a kid again, the camping, the paddle boarding, like those habits replaced bad habits that existed prior to that, that were really good. The brain doesn't necessarily know the difference between a good habit and a bad habit. It just knows that you have to do things to refresh, to get better. Now you also touched on your book similarly. So that's a leadership tip learning that from the sports and into the, into the world of you know, kind of after and saying we need to find what that is that allows us to refresh, re-energize and get that done in a healthy way to go forward. But you talk about the importance of commitment and conviction and your role that you're in as an enforcer. That was very important. And leaders, you know they have to be committed and convicted as well, and individuals have to be committed and convicted to their purpose. How has that, you know, come over from sports to life. Now for you, in terms of that commitment, commitment and conviction, that's a that's a great.

Speaker 2: 14:24

That's a great question, and I just think athletes in general there's so much dedication, there is so much commitment I think they have to be more than anything. They have to be. You have to have character, integrity, all the buzzwords that we talk about, but there's so many ups and downs in sports that you can really. It really correlates with the business world or startup company. It happens and you have to go through it. Whatever it is, you have to go through it, but I think you have to be dedicated and you have to be dedicated to whatever that is In business. When I look for leaders, I look for those who essentially make those around them better, because in the company that we had, I wanted the folks that I had under me or with me that at the end of the day, they were the ones making decisions, because I gave them the confidence too, because we were a team and we were only just like hockey where, yeah, I may have played three or four minutes a night, but I was still part of that team and our team was better because of that, and I went through my pain and anguish over it, but at the end of the day, our team still was better because I was on the ice or in the lineup, and I just think it's in business. I think there's so many and, just like in sports, there's so many things that attack you from the outside world. There's so many negatives, people don't. You either have competition or you have people that think you could never do it. And I think that's where faith comes in, and I just think, believing without seeing, and I think I know that what happens most times discouragement, happens halfway through something. Whether you're trying to make it to the NHL, whether you're trying to make it in business, it's usually at the halfway point you wanna give up, you're just like we can't do this, and or you wanna blame somebody. And in hockey it taught you that there is no giving up. You can't give up, that's not. You're burning the boat, you're taking the island, and it's the same in business. I think you really have to have that mindset that you have to burn the boats, but in doing so, one thing hockey taught me, through good and bad, is constructive criticism, treating people the way you wanna be treated, because in the old days in hockey it wasn't like that, and in business sometimes it's not like that as well, so you don't have to work for that company that has that mentality. There's so many other and that's part of it. Because when you talk about purpose, not everybody goes to work and says this is my purpose in life. However, if you can go to work and you can enjoy what you do and it allows you to live your purpose in other ways, then it kinda is your purpose in life. It allows you to spend more time with your kids, it gives you the financial means to live a life with your family or go on vacations and things like that. So it kinda is a purpose as well. How you wrap it up. So to me, I think being an athlete definitely helped me in the business world. I've always had great teams in business. I've always been able to take them on the chin kinda, say, in business, and more than that, I've been able to mentor others in positive means, positive ways.

Speaker 1: 17:50

Hey listeners, I wanna take a quick moment to share something special with you. Many of the topics and discussions we have on this podcast are areas where I provide coaching and consulting services for individuals and organizations. If you've been inspired by our conversation and are seeking a catalyst for change in your own life or within your team, I invite you to visit coachjohngallaghercom forward slash free call to sign up for a free coaching call with me. It's an opportunity for us to connect, discuss your unique challenges and explore how coaching or consulting can benefit you and your team. I'm here to equip you and encourage you every step of the way. Okay, let's get back to the show. I love that and as I listen through on the story taking one on the chin, I bet there's all kind of different metaphors and analogies that talk about in terms of correlating that between the sport itself and the business world that you're in today. For you to maintain your edge no pun intended as well as you look forward, what are the things that you have to do now intentionally to continue to live out your purpose?

Speaker 2: 19:02

Well, first and foremost, every day I have to remember it's not about me, it's about others. I have a regiment now with my lifestyle. I surround myself. You can't. And what did Rick Warren once say? He said you can't run. You can't sore at the Eagles if you run with the turkeys Not that I ran with a bunch of turkeys, but it's just a metaphor and meaning that if you have to be a 1% or you have to have standards and such, you can't just talk about it, you have to live it. That's kind of my life now, as I have a routine in the morning where I put my mind in a state where I'm thinking positive things. I have my quiet time and for me I have a Bible study and for others it's, whatever I do, my earth thing. I have my cold tub every morning. I listen to my podcasts that are positive. I visualize a lot, which is the thing I took from hockey. Believe it or not, I did it, even in fighting. I had to visualize that fight. It was painful, but I still did it because I benefited from it in terms of, yeah, I was a fighter, but I still had to win. I didn't want to get hurt. The same in life. I visualize me having a great day. I do believe that you can trick the mind into being more receptive and kind of preparing the mind for success. When you do get there, it's not surprise. That's what I do. Then I just really have to stay in the word and hold myself accountable. I know when I talk to people or I coach guys, just me coaching them reinstates and reaffirms what I'm doing. That's a big part of it as well. It's not just a bunch of talk. It's like here's what I do. I'm very transparent. I do blogs, I do all kinds of stuff to stay in front of people, to change lives, love that.

Speaker 1: 20:58

As you said that, as you talked about tricking your mind into a positive mindset, I just pulled this little card out of my drawer that I have that. I turned to Philippians 4-8, says whatever is true, noble, whatever is right and pure, whatever is lovely and admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think on these things. It takes a discipline to do that. That's Philippians 4-8. But 4-9, and what you talked about is you got to put that in action. You got to practice those things as well. You have to think that, but you also have to put it into action what you've been practicing. You did that in your professional career and you're doing that now as an entrepreneur and as a leader, living out your purpose as a husband and a father as well, in terms of your purpose that we're living out. I do appreciate you sharing that, and I know it's something that has to be managed on a daily basis. I personally have not found the cold plunge courage to do that yet, or make that look, or that cold shower that's coming out of like 55 degrees, whatever it's doing, but maybe one of these days I'm going to have to have. Several people have been telling me I need to do it, especially as I move along in my career as well in age. You and I are similar in age. You mentioned your daily discipline of reading and faith as well. How has that helped you, your faith transition into this next phase of your life and career as well? Faith over faith.

Speaker 2: 22:20

It definitely holds you accountable. Before. When you don't have faith, you're kind of being your own God. You're the one making all the rules, and where does that usually get you? It got me where it got me and it puts other people where it puts them. Unfortunately, we're not really good at managing our lives, especially when anybody can manage your life when you're on the top of the mountain, but when you're in the valley it's a little tougher. Life's all about peaks and valleys and I'd say 70% of our life, unfortunately, is in the valley. I do believe that faith and being the difference is for me, it's having a relationship with Christ. It's about every day getting. For me. I have three Bible verse reminders during the day. They come up on my phone. I have my daily hope in the morning. We arrange my day so that I'm getting reminders and it's so crazy. Sometimes when they hit me, I'm in a certain state of mind where I really don't want to be that nice guy and whatever's happening, the stress and anxiety of the real world and a Bible verse will come up. It'll say here. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Okay, I have a different Bible verse, which is kind of neat. I'm not just looking at the same one, but I just think, being being accountable, faith. Faith allows me to be accountable to higher power and Also that, you know, it also reminds me how short life is and that we are. This is really in terms of hockey, this is really just in the back in my you know, and what I think is this is really just an exhibition game. This is not even the regular season, this isn't even the first game. This is really just an exhibition game. And how I play this exhibition game it's going to be. Am I gonna be on the first line, a second line or the third line in the? In the real game? And I do. I do believe in that and with all my heart, I don't have. I don't have enough. There's not enough faith for me not to believe. There's just, there's not enough. So, and and I have to trust faith I know one thing, john, is when I got into the real world. Before every I've been into businesses where I know nothing about them. I've been asked to start companies where I and I'm doing one right now. I don't know nothing about it, but what I do know is that if I have faith, I'm going to get through it, and never once in my life, never once in my life, have I ever went into a meeting that said God, I don't know how, why I'm here, I'm with a group of Engineers or whoever. I can't speak their language, I know nothing about this, but I know you can get me through this. Not once as he let me down, not once if I not walked out of meeting. So when you get that mode, that undeniable results from faith, it's why wouldn't you do it? You know, find a cure for cancer, find a cure for cancer. I would tell everybody, I want everybody to know, and that's kind of what the purpose worth fighting for is all about. It's okay, it's yours, it's free. Here's my life. I'm not some Bible thumper that's gonna crack you over the head. Here's my life, here's what happened, and I'm a tough guy and I do it all. I, you know, I dirt bike, I mountain bike. I'm just a normal guy. Another thing I did what's has helped me a lot. I line myself with guys like Laird Hamilton, cam Haynes, guys that are my age out in the sports world, that are doing what they're doing. They don't drink, they eat healthy. They're all in their fifties. You don't have to know a mentor, you don't have to know somebody. Even Ed my lat, you know. You don't have to know somebody to to get encouragement from them. You know how many people listen to Joe Rogan or these podcasts and I encourage that because there's so many things. You know Matthew McConaughey, read that book greenlight. There's so many things, there's so many tools and people out there that just get you through. Get you through it. I know when I was going through the drinking thing, I read Tim McGraw quit drinking. I'm like well, interesting, I read into it. Oh, okay, so there's, there's so many. Sometimes you think you're alone on an island. You're really not, really not.

Speaker 1: 26:26

Well, I hope that book that your book is, is that for, as you said, even one person? Billy, yeah, if that's your goal, I want to ask you a question about your book. So I had one of the brand-builders group authors, bob Wheatley, on the on the podcast once and he talked about the one-year Effect of a book that you know he wants. He wants it to be a book that, while it goes up on a shelf like that, when you see the backing of it, you look at it a year later you can remember a story that's attached to that book that impacted you. So when readers read your book, what do you want them to feel or do as a result of reading? A Purpose worth fighting for, finding faith over fear.

Speaker 2: 27:06

That's actually a really great question. There's several, but I would I would definitely want someone to read it that's, that's not living their purpose, or they're just existing and not living. To realize that the Having faith having faith over you know, having faith really to me Allows you to overcome the fear of change. Because there's so many of us that just are too afraid to change your ladders, leaning up against the building you're climbing, and then you realize, oh my gosh, my ladders on the wrong building, but they're too afraid to make a change because they're 50 or 60 years old. They're making so much money, there's so many elements. You're in the NHL, I'm in the NHL, but you're the most, you're the unhappiest person. So to me, to me, I would say that Overcoming your fear of change through faith and or a higher power, or seeking something other than just self-help, because it, because to me, when you do that, the results are forever. The results are they just absolutely transforming your life.

Speaker 1: 28:15

That's awesome. I hope that for you as well. You just got a couple more questions I want to ask you. This is actually more of a Question for a hockey player for an enforcer. So each team had what they would identify as their enforcer and you put the enforcers out on the ice and they'd go at it these guys. Did you personally dislike them, or did you go out and have a beer with them afterwards after the show? No, that's a great question.

Speaker 2: 28:41

No, no, we're on the same roll. So we're buddies. Most of us we're friends. I mean, you had to create enough. You know, before each game, the anxiety wants to fight. So the biggest thing about fighting and this is my and my, this is just what I'm saying about it, Maybe other fighters will say something was the anticipation. So it's like a meeting or public speaking. It's like the buildup and the stress and your breathing. But then once you do it, you're just like, oh, that's all. You see, guys are fighting and then after a fight, they're talking. And then, yes, sometimes you're, sometimes you're going for a beer the night before. So there was nothing personal, it was your job, it was your role. I mean, there's only so many positions in the NHL. Nhl is a global sport. Finland, Russia, Sweden, you have them from all the Czechoslovakia, all over the world and there's only so many positions for the elite of the elite athletes. It's the fastest sport in the world. So if you're kind of in a role, you better be really good at that role and you better know what, you know how to utilize that role. But as it relates to fighters, we are all in a little fraternity within ourselves. We were all, none of us were going to the Hall of Fame. We knew, hey, we signed up for this and this was our job. So to me, when you, I hear so many stories and the sad part is there were a lot of NHL enforcers that never made it through or made it in post because they had other issues that doubt. I truly believe that we're part of the anxiety and stress that they went through. But, as it relates to most most fighters, we all knew what we signed up for. I don't, I didn't know, you know, obviously by the book of thing else, I didn't realize the impact it would have on me as a person in my life. But yeah, we would go for a beer afterwards and hopefully nobody got hurt too bad.

Speaker 1: 30:25

I was just curious. I wasn't, I didn't, I didn't get a sense that they were going to be, you know, total hate. As you said, you guys had a job to do and each night you're trying to figure out who was the best at that at that part of the job. No doubt about it, billy. How do people stay in touch with you and also find your book? Where do you want them to go get it?

Speaker 2: 30:42

Sure, they can go to BillyHuehrcom and you can go to Amazon. On the Wednesday it's going to be on Amazon. It's 99 cents for the ebook, and then the paperback is going to be available as well. So, billyhuehrcom, go to Amazon. I'm on social media as well, and LinkedIn and Twitter, so, yeah, they can just go ahead. The best thing to do, I would say, is probably just go to my website and from there you get redirected to my book and they're just going to Amazon and buy the book. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 31:11

Billy, I've enjoyed the time today. I just had one more question for you. That's a question I always ask the first time. Yes, and that's it. I'm going to give you a billboard. You can put it anywhere you want to. What are you going to put on that billboard on? What message are you going to put on that billboard?

Speaker 2: 31:23

and why I would probably say characters found. I would probably say characters found at the finish line, not at the start line.

Speaker 1: 31:37

Something that you've had to endure in many different phases of life. No doubt about it, not at the start line Just like your journey reading the book, that first one, the Evangelist from Billy Graham. It's just, that's just the start line, right?

Speaker 2: 31:54

Right, You're finished. That's exactly what I mean by it.

Speaker 1: 31:56

Hopefully not willing a few years down the road, but that's the finish line.

Speaker 2: 31:59

That is. It's the finish line. Right now, I'm on the dash.

Speaker 1: 32:04

That's right. You're on the dash Exactly right. Look at this, Grace and Billy. I've truly enjoyed this conversation. I hope you have as well. I know the listeners are going to find value in it and I wish you the best in the book and in the future as well.

Speaker 2: 32:16

I want to thank you, John, and thank you for all your listeners as well.

Speaker 1: 32:20

And that wraps up another episode of the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Thanks for tuning in today. If you found value in this episode, I encourage you to share it with your friends, colleagues or anyone else who could benefit from the insights and inspiration we've shared. Also, if you have a moment, I'd greatly appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback not only helps us to improve, but it also helps others discover the podcast and join our growing community of Uncommon Leaders. Until next time, go with Grow Champions.